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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
Non League Projections 2019/20

 

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Cris
Youth Team Star

May 21, 2019, 8:44 AM

Posts: 307
Location: Birmingham
Team(s): Bromsgrove Sporting

Post #1151 of 1232 (9130 views)
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Re: [Single Malt] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Not sure what you mean. All my maps in my signature are up to date with the actual allocations.

I've just opened Step 2, and it still shows Warrington rather than King's Lynn in National League North.


Itís right when I open it, has been all week.


Terrierdave
Youth Team Star

May 21, 2019, 9:09 AM

Posts: 359
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne (previously Bedlington)
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Post #1152 of 1232 (8957 views)
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Not sure what you mean. All my maps in my signature are up to date with the actual allocations.


Is there a direct link you can put here for my benefit? I can't see any signature in your posts that you are referring to?


Richard Rundle
Man City Transfer Target!

May 21, 2019, 9:14 AM

Posts: 8310
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Post #1153 of 1232 (8931 views)
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Re: [Terrierdave] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I would presume that most people browse with things like signatures turned off?


Terrierdave
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May 21, 2019, 9:26 AM

Posts: 359
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne (previously Bedlington)
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Post #1154 of 1232 (8872 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I would presume that most people browse with things like signatures turned off?


Good call! I hadn't knowingly done that, but edited my settings so can now see!


Part-Timer
Chelsea Transfer Target

May 21, 2019, 10:00 AM

Posts: 4427
Location: Huntingdonshire
Team(s): Brentford, Bradford City, Peterborough United, Yaxley

Post #1155 of 1232 (8686 views)
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Re: [hawkwind] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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What would be the net effect of Gateshead failing to meet the Conference's Wednesday deadline and being expelled from the Conference.

Would they be at Step 3 or possibly lower and what would the effect on the allocations be? Any thoughts?


Step 1 - Aldershot reprieve

Step 2 - Truro reprieve or one of super play off losers promoted would be more fair (Warrington had the most points)

If Gateshead get kicked out the conference then it's probably the end for them. There's no money, ground, players, staff, or anything else there, so what league would let them in? A new club likely to start in a regional league.


As far as I can gather the clubs in lead position for filling vacancies are, according to the regulations for post-season vacancies:
Step 1: Reprieves: Aldershot Town; Braintree Town; Havant & Waterlooville
Step 2: Reprieves: Truro City; Ashton United; East Thurrock United; United of Manchester
Step 3: Step 4 play-off winners: Heybridge Swifts; Brighouse Town
Step 4: Step 5 seconds PPG: Plymouth Parkway; Corinthian; Bootle; Deeping Rangers;

When discussing future plans in the Non League Paper a while back there was a Q&A with Ray Lewis, Mark Frost, Matt Edkins and Laurence Jones. This was one of the questions:

NLP: Last season we saw the late withdrawal of Shaw Lane and the significant knock-on consequences for other clubs who had to be reshuffled into different leagues. How have the regulations been tweaked in reaction to that?

Ray Lewis: This year weíve put a deadline on clubs who withdraw for whatever reason. We donít want to be in a situation as we had last year. We moved clubs very late on last season, which we had to do because of the regulations, but it was far from ideal.

MF: Now once weíve released the allocations for the next theyíre set. If a club withdraws, the league runs one short.

ME: A league can adjust their own tables (prior to its AGM). If the vacancy was at Step 3, they could reprieve the next in line and run one short at Step 4, for example.

LJ: We have a responsibility to provide guidance to clubs. Through the County FAs and the leagues, thatís an area of the game where there is more opportunity to support the clubs.


So would wholesale re-shuffling happen if Gateshead go?


hawkwind
First Team Star

May 21, 2019, 11:12 AM

Posts: 1949
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Post #1156 of 1232 (8373 views)
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Re: [Part-Timer] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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As far as I can gather the clubs in lead position for filling vacancies are, according to the regulations for post-season vacancies:
Step 1: Reprieves: Aldershot Town; Braintree Town; Havant & Waterlooville
Step 2: Reprieves: Truro City; Ashton United; East Thurrock United; United of Manchester
Step 3: Step 4 play-off winners: Heybridge Swifts; Brighouse Town
Step 4: Step 5 seconds PPG: Plymouth Parkway; Corinthian; Bootle; Deeping Rangers;

When discussing future plans in the Non League Paper a while back there was a Q&A with Ray Lewis, Mark Frost, Matt Edkins and Laurence Jones. This was one of the questions:

NLP: Last season we saw the late withdrawal of Shaw Lane and the significant knock-on consequences for other clubs who had to be reshuffled into different leagues. How have the regulations been tweaked in reaction to that?

Ray Lewis: This year weíve put a deadline on clubs who withdraw for whatever reason. We donít want to be in a situation as we had last year. We moved clubs very late on last season, which we had to do because of the regulations, but it was far from ideal.

MF: Now once weíve released the allocations for the next theyíre set. If a club withdraws, the league runs one short.

ME: A league can adjust their own tables (prior to its AGM). If the vacancy was at Step 3, they could reprieve the next in line and run one short at Step 4, for example.

LJ: We have a responsibility to provide guidance to clubs. Through the County FAs and the leagues, thatís an area of the game where there is more opportunity to support the clubs.


So would wholesale re-shuffling happen if Gateshead go?


I posted that NLP exchange earlier (post 1038).

It appears to contradict the regulations.

My hunch is that the FALC will respect their own regulations because otherwise they would risk greater upheaval later in the summer.


swjoduk
Reserve Team Star

May 21, 2019, 1:19 PM

Posts: 724
Location: Bridgwater
Team(s): Taunton Town, Exeter City, Swindon Town, Westcountry football as a whole

Post #1157 of 1232 (7768 views)
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Just an issue with my Iphone or Google Maps App, now I have looked on the desktop they are up to date


swjoduk
Reserve Team Star

May 21, 2019, 1:24 PM

Posts: 724
Location: Bridgwater
Team(s): Taunton Town, Exeter City, Swindon Town, Westcountry football as a whole

Post #1158 of 1232 (7724 views)
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Re: [swjoduk] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

After seeing the updated maps

I'd also look to move Salisbury

Dorchester, Wimborne, Poole, Salisbury, Blackfield, Gosport, Hartley and Farnborough to Isthmian

Carshalton, Corinthian, Kingstonian, Wingate and Finchley, Enfield , Haringey, Chesnut and Potters Bar to Southern South

Then swap Kings Langley and Potters Bar.

The league footprints then look about even across the 4 step 3s


swjoduk
Reserve Team Star

May 21, 2019, 1:31 PM

Posts: 724
Location: Bridgwater
Team(s): Taunton Town, Exeter City, Swindon Town, Westcountry football as a whole

Post #1159 of 1232 (7675 views)
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Re: [swjoduk] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Alternatively swap Potters Bar, Cheshunt and Bishops Stortford from Isthmian with Needham, Leiston and Lowestoft to balance the footprints a bit


Brightside
Junior Team Star

May 21, 2019, 1:40 PM

Posts: 74
Location: North Essex
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Post #1160 of 1232 (7630 views)
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Re: [swjoduk] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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After seeing the updated maps

I'd also look to move Salisbury

Dorchester, Wimborne, Poole, Salisbury, Blackfield, Gosport, Hartley and Farnborough to Isthmian

Carshalton, Corinthian, Kingstonian, Wingate and Finchley, Enfield , Haringey, Chesnut and Potters Bar to Southern South

Then swap Kings Langley and Potters Bar.

The league footprints then look about even across the 4 step 3s


This split just seems to increase mileage for most

Brightlingsea to Dorchester is the biggest trip in the Isthmian rather than Brightlingsea to Bognor

Truro to Cheshunt is the biggest trip in the Southern South rather than Truro to Hendon(?)

https://www.google.com/...q7jF&usp=sharing



How 2020/2021 could look like

Non League Projections - 2020/21 - https://docs.google.com/...lQiA/pub?output=xlsx

Step 1 - https://drive.google.com/...1zLX5Ju5&usp=sharing
Step 2 - https://drive.google.com/...REZzvDIU&usp=sharing
Step 3 - https://drive.google.com/...GYGtPp8H&usp=sharing
Step 4 - https://drive.google.com/...-M-GbrY3&usp=sharing
Step 5 - https://drive.google.com/...I48iX_bL&usp=sharing
Step 6 - https://drive.google.com/...siBvGhTK&usp=sharing



Brightside
Junior Team Star

May 21, 2019, 1:44 PM

Posts: 74
Location: North Essex
Team(s):

Post #1161 of 1232 (7597 views)
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Re: [swjoduk] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Alternatively swap Potters Bar, Cheshunt and Bishops Stortford from Isthmian with Needham, Leiston and Lowestoft to balance the footprints a bit


https://drive.google.com/...1_b3&usp=sharing

That's better



How 2020/2021 could look like

Non League Projections - 2020/21 - https://docs.google.com/...lQiA/pub?output=xlsx

Step 1 - https://drive.google.com/...1zLX5Ju5&usp=sharing
Step 2 - https://drive.google.com/...REZzvDIU&usp=sharing
Step 3 - https://drive.google.com/...GYGtPp8H&usp=sharing
Step 4 - https://drive.google.com/...-M-GbrY3&usp=sharing
Step 5 - https://drive.google.com/...I48iX_bL&usp=sharing
Step 6 - https://drive.google.com/...siBvGhTK&usp=sharing



Cris
Youth Team Star

May 21, 2019, 2:25 PM

Posts: 307
Location: Birmingham
Team(s): Bromsgrove Sporting

Post #1162 of 1232 (7351 views)
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Re: [Brightside] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To
After seeing the updated maps

I'd also look to move Salisbury

Dorchester, Wimborne, Poole, Salisbury, Blackfield, Gosport, Hartley and Farnborough to Isthmian

Carshalton, Corinthian, Kingstonian, Wingate and Finchley, Enfield , Haringey, Chesnut and Potters Bar to Southern South

Then swap Kings Langley and Potters Bar.

The league footprints then look about even across the 4 step 3s


This split just seems to increase mileage for most

Brightlingsea to Dorchester is the biggest trip in the Isthmian rather than Brightlingsea to Bognor

Truro to Cheshunt is the biggest trip in the Southern South rather than Truro to Hendon(?)

https://www.google.com/...q7jF&usp=sharing


The FALC seem to want to make as few changes as possible, which I think on balance is the right approach.

Iíd personally like to have the south western and west mids teams in the same league, taking advantage of the M5. Iíd then split the remain clubs roughly north and south of the Thames. This I accept would be a very radical change and wonít happen.


E&E Fred
Youth Team Star


May 21, 2019, 4:14 PM

Posts: 274
Location: Fetcham, Surrey
Team(s): Epsom & Ewell FC

Post #1163 of 1232 (6987 views)
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Re: [Part-Timer] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

My thoughts on Gateshead are that the Shaw Lane / Fleet fiasco happened much later in the closed season, so we could still see more changes. It might give the FA an opportunity to tidy up one or two areas that have been highlighted here at the same time, but I won't hold my breath.
Coming from the Co Co area, I'm gutted for both Frimley Green and Cove. All season our Step 6 clubs have been told what will happen and the hoops we have to jump through. Frimley are only lower down on PPG because the league was far more competitive, so this effectively means that the weaker leagues promote two, while the stronger leagues promote just one!
I know this may complicate matters further and may not be universally accepted as a result, but PPG against other clubs finishing in the top ten of a league might be a fairer way to decide PPG issues going forward?
Also, in a 19 team league that then loses a club (AC London) mid-season, Cove have finished 18th, yet have been moved down and replaced by:
1) a club that didn't even exist at the start of 2018/19 in Jersey Bulls and
2) a club that came 4th in the Surrey Elite and don't have their own ground in Westside.
Jersey coming up I can live with, but surely Cove should have been reprieved one way or another when there are other vacancies at Step Six?
I wish both clubs the best of luck with their appeals, albeit in hope rather than expectation.
Btw look out for Gateshead - FA Vase Champions 2020/21!!



Last Ground (581) - Cardiff City FC - 21st April 2018
Last Cup won - Combined Counties League Cup - 2013
Twitter - @EandERich
Website: www.eefconline.co.uk
Website: www.isthmianarchive.co.uk


derekn
First Team Star

May 21, 2019, 5:02 PM

Posts: 2137
Location: Somerset
Team(s): Taunton Town

Post #1164 of 1232 (6786 views)
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Re: [Cris] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


Quote

Iíd personally like to have the south western and west mids teams in the same league, taking advantage of the M5.


Not sure the M5 is ever an advantage!


Cris
Youth Team Star

May 21, 2019, 5:42 PM

Posts: 307
Location: Birmingham
Team(s): Bromsgrove Sporting

Post #1165 of 1232 (6607 views)
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Re: [E&E Fred] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Coming from the Co Co area, I'm gutted for both Frimley Green and Cove. All season our Step 6 clubs have been told what will happen and the hoops we have to jump through. Frimley are only lower down on PPG because the league was far more competitive, so this effectively means that the weaker leagues promote two, while the stronger leagues promote just one!


I donít like PPG being used because it doesnít reflect differences in quality between leagues. However, a league being competitive does not automatically make it strong or vice versa, a league with 20 poor teams would be competitive but itís top two wouldnít be as good as the top two in a league with 10 good teams and 10 poor teams even if that league were less competitive.


Cris
Youth Team Star

May 21, 2019, 5:46 PM

Posts: 307
Location: Birmingham
Team(s): Bromsgrove Sporting

Post #1166 of 1232 (6562 views)
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Re: [derekn] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Quote

Iíd personally like to have the south western and west mids teams in the same league, taking advantage of the M5.


Not sure the M5 is ever an advantage!


Give me that over three trips from Worcestershire to Suffolk.


bakis
Reserve Team Regular

May 21, 2019, 7:07 PM

Posts: 595
Location: Worcestershire
Team(s): Kidderminster Harriers

Post #1167 of 1232 (6257 views)
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Re: [E&E Fred] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Given that Jersey Bulls are regarded as being based at Gatwick perhaps they should have been allocated to the SCL, thus enabling Cove to be reprieved? If they are as successful as Guernsey were they could well end up in the SCL footprint at Step 5 in 2020/21, especially now that Horley have been moved.


blackdouglas
Chelsea Transfer Target


May 21, 2019, 7:44 PM

Posts: 3263
Location: Northwood, Middlesex
Team(s): See signature for clubs

Post #1168 of 1232 (6040 views)
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Re: [swjoduk] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The three Suffolk teams, Leiston, Lowestoft, & Needham Market, have to go to the Isthmian, otherwise we are heading back to the travel situation which saw the ECL clubs refuse promotion to the Southern League for years. To balance, Kingstonian, Corinthian-Casuals, & Leatherhead to SLPS and Chesham, Beaconsfield, & Merthyr to SLPC.



Northwood, Threave Rovers, Arsenal, Rangers (the real ones, NOT qpr),Watford, Rochdale, queen of the south and a few others.


swjoduk
Reserve Team Star

May 21, 2019, 8:41 PM

Posts: 724
Location: Bridgwater
Team(s): Taunton Town, Exeter City, Swindon Town, Westcountry football as a whole

Post #1169 of 1232 (5736 views)
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Re: [Brightside] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Looks good, pretty well balanced.

What about how to get a balanced Step 4? So Isthmian clubs donít get so much less travelling than other leagues


ladderman
Man City Transfer Target!

May 21, 2019, 8:41 PM

Posts: 7299
Location: Bishop's Stortford
Team(s): Bishop's Stortford & Cambridge United

Post #1170 of 1232 (5735 views)
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Re: [blackdouglas] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Can anyone refuse promotion? in a world where the FA decide everything?


Cris
Youth Team Star

May 21, 2019, 9:10 PM

Posts: 307
Location: Birmingham
Team(s): Bromsgrove Sporting

Post #1171 of 1232 (5532 views)
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Re: [swjoduk] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Looks good, pretty well balanced.

What about how to get a balanced Step 4? So Isthmian clubs donít get so much less travelling than other leagues


Have less of them! (Or at least stop promoting so many teams in the SE)


Dereham Harrier
Junior Team Regular

May 21, 2019, 11:03 PM

Posts: 43
Location: Norfolk
Team(s): Kidderminster Harriers, Dereham Town

Post #1172 of 1232 (4968 views)
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Re: [swjoduk] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Looks good, pretty well balanced.

What about how to get a balanced Step 4? So Isthmian clubs donít get so much less travelling than other leagues



Ouch! At Dereham Town (Isthmian 1 North, Step 4) we will have an average trip of 87 miles each way next season - that's quite enough, thank you. And no, we don't have motorways around here.


splodge
Chelsea Transfer Target


May 22, 2019, 8:25 AM

Posts: 4774
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Team(s): Fareham Town, Hampshire League

Post #1173 of 1232 (4022 views)
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Re: [E&E Fred] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

[reply In a 19 team league that then loses a club (AC London) mid-season, Cove have finished 18th, yet have been moved down and replaced by:
1) a club that didn't even exist at the start of 2018/19 in Jersey Bulls and
2) a club that came 4th in the Surrey Elite and don't have their own ground in Westside.
Jersey coming up I can live with, but surely Cove should have been reprieved one way or another when there are other vacancies at Step Six?
I wish both clubs the best of luck with their appeals, albeit in hope rather than expectation.
Btw look out for Gateshead - FA Vase Champions 2020/21!!


As i'm involved in the Hampshire League, I have a vested interest - can you point me in the right direction for something confirming Cove have put in an appeal please, as I've not seen nor can I find anything myself.



www.twitter.com/splodgey
www.facebook.com/paulsplodgeproctor


(This post was edited by splodge on May 22, 2019, 10:03 AM)


splodge
Chelsea Transfer Target


May 22, 2019, 4:20 PM

Posts: 4774
Location:
Team(s): Fareham Town, Hampshire League

Post #1174 of 1232 (2931 views)
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Re: [splodge] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Confirmation of Cove's appeal received



www.twitter.com/splodgey
www.facebook.com/paulsplodgeproctor


Brightside
Junior Team Star

May 22, 2019, 9:34 PM

Posts: 74
Location: North Essex
Team(s):

Post #1175 of 1232 (1921 views)
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Re: [Cris] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To

Quote

Iíd personally like to have the south western and west mids teams in the same league, taking advantage of the M5.


Not sure the M5 is ever an advantage!


Give me that over three trips from Worcestershire to Suffolk.


I think overall that reduces travel, it's just quite a fundamental change in footprint



How 2020/2021 could look like

Non League Projections - 2020/21 - https://docs.google.com/...lQiA/pub?output=xlsx

Step 1 - https://drive.google.com/...1zLX5Ju5&usp=sharing
Step 2 - https://drive.google.com/...REZzvDIU&usp=sharing
Step 3 - https://drive.google.com/...GYGtPp8H&usp=sharing
Step 4 - https://drive.google.com/...-M-GbrY3&usp=sharing
Step 5 - https://drive.google.com/...I48iX_bL&usp=sharing
Step 6 - https://drive.google.com/...siBvGhTK&usp=sharing


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