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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
Non League Projections 2018/19

 

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shimtoan
First Team Regular


May 23, 2018, 8:02 AM

Posts: 1379
Location: Dunkirk, Nottingham
Team(s): Dunkirk

Post #701 of 744 (6062 views)
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Re: [GRIFFON] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Only one from each of the three Midland Step Six leagues goes up into the Midland League Premier Division and three come down from it. Well known and been discussed on here many times.

too many decent clubs, not enough space at Step 5



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


May 23, 2018, 8:06 AM

Posts: 10552
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #702 of 744 (6051 views)
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Re: [GRIFFON] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Only one from each of the three Midland Step Six leagues goes up into the Midland League Premier Division and three come down from it. Well known and been discussed on here many times.



The changes next season will benefit these 3 leagues.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

May 23, 2018, 8:11 AM

Posts: 3889
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football

Post #703 of 744 (6031 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Only one from each of the three Midland Step Six leagues goes up into the Midland League Premier Division and three come down from it. Well known and been discussed on here many times.



The changes next season will benefit these 3 leagues.


So next year they will get 2 promoted?’


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


May 23, 2018, 8:23 AM

Posts: 10552
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #704 of 744 (5991 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Only one from each of the three Midland Step Six leagues goes up into the Midland League Premier Division and three come down from it. Well known and been discussed on here many times.



The changes next season will benefit these 3 leagues.


So next year they will get 2 promoted?’



The bottom 2 in each step 5 league will be relegated. This means there’ll be 28 promotion spots from step 6(unless more teams resign or fold & create more spaces). The step 6 champions will all be promoted & the extra spaces will be filled by the runners up on a ppg basis.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


Sarumio
Man City Transfer Target!

May 23, 2018, 8:57 AM

Posts: 6329
Location: Ilminster
Team(s): Salisbury

Post #705 of 744 (5881 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Only one from each of the three Midland Step Six leagues goes up into the Midland League Premier Division and three come down from it. Well known and been discussed on here many times.



The changes next season will benefit these 3 leagues.


So next year they will get 2 promoted?’



The bottom 2 in each step 5 league will be relegated. This means there’ll be 28 promotion spots from step 6(unless more teams resign or fold & create more spaces). The step 6 champions will all be promoted & the extra spaces will be filled by the runners up on a ppg basis.


Which is uttery,utterly, utterly ridiculous!


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

May 23, 2018, 8:57 AM

Posts: 3889
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football

Post #706 of 744 (5876 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Only one from each of the three Midland Step Six leagues goes up into the Midland League Premier Division and three come down from it. Well known and been discussed on here many times.



The changes next season will benefit these 3 leagues.


So next year they will get 2 promoted?’



The bottom 2 in each step 5 league will be relegated. This means there’ll be 28 promotion spots from step 6(unless more teams resign or fold & create more spaces). The step 6 champions will all be promoted & the extra spaces will be filled by the runners up on a ppg basis.


So based on 19 step 6 Divisions 10 clubs that finish second will miss out.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


May 23, 2018, 9:00 AM

Posts: 10552
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #707 of 744 (5858 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Only one from each of the three Midland Step Six leagues goes up into the Midland League Premier Division and three come down from it. Well known and been discussed on here many times.



The changes next season will benefit these 3 leagues.


So next year they will get 2 promoted?’



The bottom 2 in each step 5 league will be relegated. This means there’ll be 28 promotion spots from step 6(unless more teams resign or fold & create more spaces). The step 6 champions will all be promoted & the extra spaces will be filled by the runners up on a ppg basis.


So based on 19 step 6 Divisions 10 clubs that finish second will miss out.



Yes, unless there’s more spaces are available. For the reasons I’ve mentioned.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


Brightside
Youth Team Sub

May 23, 2018, 10:01 AM

Posts: 107
Location: North Essex
Team(s):

Post #708 of 744 (5611 views)
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Re: Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Next season's Step 6 - Step 5 promotion / relegations being allocated across all divisions will alter the footprints of all the leagues.

It seems to me that a new Step 5 league is needed in the North West to mirror the new step 6 league.

It seems that in the Midlands an additional step 5 league is needed. With 3 step 6 leagues, teams could easily be found to go from 1 step 5 league and 3 step 6 leagues to 2 step 5 leagues and 2 step 6 leagues.

If the Hellenic and South West keep 2 step 6 feeders there would be 16 step 5 leagues and 18 step 6 leagues.

3 up and 3 down with one step 6 feeder and 2 up and 4 down with 2 step 6 feeders.



2020/2021 based on league positions as at 09/11/2019

Non League Projections - 2020/21 - https://docs.google.com/...fAI/edit?usp=sharing
Step 1 - https://drive.google.com/...1zLX5Ju5&usp=sharing
Step 2 - https://drive.google.com/...REZzvDIU&usp=sharing
Step 3 - https://drive.google.com/...GYGtPp8H&usp=sharing
Step 4 - https://drive.google.com/...DJBN8cC-&usp=sharing
Step 5 - https://drive.google.com/...I48iX_bL&usp=sharing
Step 6 - https://drive.google.com/...siBvGhTK&usp=sharing


Sarumio
Man City Transfer Target!

May 23, 2018, 10:10 AM

Posts: 6329
Location: Ilminster
Team(s): Salisbury

Post #709 of 744 (5573 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Only one from each of the three Midland Step Six leagues goes up into the Midland League Premier Division and three come down from it. Well known and been discussed on here many times.



The changes next season will benefit these 3 leagues.


So next year they will get 2 promoted?’



The bottom 2 in each step 5 league will be relegated. This means there’ll be 28 promotion spots from step 6(unless more teams resign or fold & create more spaces). The step 6 champions will all be promoted & the extra spaces will be filled by the runners up on a ppg basis.


So based on 19 step 6 Divisions 10 clubs that finish second will miss out.


Yes and they won't know they've missed out until all other step 6 leagues finish their campaigns.

So no more pitch side celebrations of finishing second and going up - a team in Hampshire may finish their season in late April, but then have to wait three weeks until a club in Northumberland finish their season, to find out whether they have clinched promotion or not.

So yes All Step 6 clubs looking at finishing second will now haveto scour 19 league tables across England ona regular basis to find out if the second place position they hold (or have finished in) means the are promoted or not.

So what will be achieved.
- Killing all the fun in attaining promotion.

- Requiring all Step 6 clubs in the running for promotion all across England into a position where the clubs, and their SUPPORTERS, have to take a vested interest in leagues hundreds of miles away, and in clubs they have never heard of and will never visit!


Oxford Stone
Chelsea Transfer Target


May 23, 2018, 10:39 AM

Posts: 5569
Location: Abingdon-on-Thames
Team(s): Maidstone United

Post #710 of 744 (5455 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I seem to remember that when Maidstone United were struggling for 5 years to get out of the Kent League up to the heady heights of the Ryman, there was at least one season where there was a similar scenario (2nd will be OK if the champs of the NWCL don't apply for promotion etc etc), so it's nothing new.

My main gripe is the imposition of unnecessary ground improvements, resulting in all sorts of problems.


E&E Fred
Youth Team Star


May 23, 2018, 10:58 AM

Posts: 278
Location: Fetcham, Surrey
Team(s): Epsom & Ewell FC

Post #711 of 744 (5355 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I understand your concerns about the new Step 6 promotion structure and as a supporter of a newly relegated club, I am also concerned about the process.
However, I can't see a better way. Do you have any other ideas as to how they do this?
Relegating three from 20 does appear particularly harsh in Step Five, especially if the steps above them are only going to drop two clubs.



Last Ground (607) - Stockport County - 9th November 2019
Last Cup won - Combined Counties League Cup - 2013
Twitter - @EandERich
Website: www.eefconline.co.uk
Website: www.isthmianarchive.co.uk


KnowYourMarket
Man City Transfer Target!


May 23, 2018, 11:11 AM

Posts: 10973
Location: Longton, Stoke-on-Trent - Ar Bay a Brummie
Team(s): WBA, FC Saarbruecken, Brierley Hill Alliance (RIP)

Post #712 of 744 (5276 views)
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Re: [E&E Fred] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Play offs between runners up?



Last ground visited(update requested by Spud): Wellington . New grounds 18/19: 38


E&E Fred
Youth Team Star


May 23, 2018, 11:35 AM

Posts: 278
Location: Fetcham, Surrey
Team(s): Epsom & Ewell FC

Post #713 of 744 (5161 views)
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Re: [KnowYourMarket] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

That might work if there were definitely 18 leagues and definitely 9 spots, but this is very unlikely. It would also involve a degree of travelling for those playoffs far greater than they may have to travel even if they were to go up. Even if you did have playoffs, how would you determine who played who?
I'm sure a lot of people would like playoffs. I know that Step Five have been crying out for them for years, but in reality, it just doesn't work because of the limited number of spaces, and whilst I agree with Sarumio that we could all be affected by other clubs 200 miles away, I can't right now see an alternative that works.
I think I'm just going to have to acquaint myself with a lot of new clubs and league tables!



Last Ground (607) - Stockport County - 9th November 2019
Last Cup won - Combined Counties League Cup - 2013
Twitter - @EandERich
Website: www.eefconline.co.uk
Website: www.isthmianarchive.co.uk


KnowYourMarket
Man City Transfer Target!


May 23, 2018, 11:52 AM

Posts: 10973
Location: Longton, Stoke-on-Trent - Ar Bay a Brummie
Team(s): WBA, FC Saarbruecken, Brierley Hill Alliance (RIP)

Post #714 of 744 (5067 views)
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Re: [E&E Fred] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

A play off would only be a one off though, you could whittle 18 down to 9. Just have a draw or play on a neutral venue or 2 legged games.

Spain whittles 54 down to 9 using play-offs so 18 to 9 is fairly simple.

Not that I'm for them or PPG. When you have regional football and a limited number of promotion places something has to give.

In some countries they have fixed boundaries so if teams from your area are relegated into your division that can push extra teams down. As an example VSG Altglienicke in Germany will be relegated if the team at the top of their division do not win their play off to go up! Even worse up to 3 teams who have won their division at level 4 in Germany will not be promoted.

It is not uncommon for teams who finish 2nd not to go up on the continent.



Last ground visited(update requested by Spud): Wellington . New grounds 18/19: 38


markust
Youth Team Star

May 23, 2018, 12:14 PM

Posts: 286
Location:
Team(s):

Post #715 of 744 (4950 views)
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Re: [E&E Fred] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Why is 3/20 relegation spots harsh? NWC and NCE have been relegating 3/22 for a while (4/23 this season in NWC) and 3/20 works pretty well in the Premier League too!

Leagues need a decent turnover of clubs, otherwise they go stale and uncompetitive.


Sarumio
Man City Transfer Target!

May 23, 2018, 12:15 PM

Posts: 6329
Location: Ilminster
Team(s): Salisbury

Post #716 of 744 (4946 views)
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Re: [E&E Fred] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I understand your concerns about the new Step 6 promotion structure and as a supporter of a newly relegated club, I am also concerned about the process.
However, I can't see a better way. Do you have any other ideas as to how they do this?
Relegating three from 20 does appear particularly harsh in Step Five, especially if the steps above them are only going to drop two clubs.



Hmm....how about don't fix things that aren't brke.

Tinker....yes

Wholesale changes across the Step...completely unnecessary

Three down in division of 20 - not harsh in my opinion. The Premier League do it - so see no reason why any other league can't!

Leagues like Wessex, CoCo, Southern combo can continue with their three, three down arrangement between Steps 5 and 6.

Other leagues like the UCL and SSML – can continue with their two up two down arrangements.

The leagues need SOME say and some CONTROL!

Where leagues at Step 6 are independent of the Step 5 division they feed then the FA should have the right to step in and enforce certain things.

SWPL should be treated as the sister division of the Western League Div One.
West Midlands Regional League should be treated as the sister division of the Midland Division One.
Two up from each division and 4 down from the Prem.
Or three down from Prem if 4 down from 20 team divisions is deemed to much – Play off between runners up to determine the third promotion spot.

The EMCL can float between being a feeder to the UCL or NCEL.

PPG at Step 6 – absolute JOKE!


markust
Youth Team Star

May 23, 2018, 12:18 PM

Posts: 286
Location:
Team(s):

Post #717 of 744 (4928 views)
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Re: [E&E Fred] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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That might work if there were definitely 18 leagues and definitely 9 spots, but this is very unlikely. It would also involve a degree of travelling for those playoffs far greater than they may have to travel even if they were to go up.


Holker travelled to Hanley in a Step 6 playoff 2 seasons back. That was midweek and a 6 hour round trip.


Neutral FC
Ballboy/girl


May 23, 2018, 12:26 PM

Posts: 6
Location: Loughborough
Team(s): All non-league Clubs, Nottm Forest, Loughborough United 'til demise in1973

Post #718 of 744 (4898 views)
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Re: [GRIFFON] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Yeah - but this is an exceptional season with so many being granted promotion due to the increased numbers. Also, I recall previous winners of the EMCL being promoted to Leagues other than the Midland League (which basically is run from Birmingham). It always seems the East Midlands is seen as the "kick the clubs anywhere we can fit them in" region to me.


DarkSithLord
Reserve Team Regular

May 23, 2018, 12:41 PM

Posts: 581
Location: Derbyshire
Team(s): Alfreton Town

Post #719 of 744 (4831 views)
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Re: [Neutral FC] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Situation sounds serious at Nuneaton.

High proability that Gainsbrough may be reprieved.

League AGM is June 10th



"the force is strong with this one"


GRIFFON
First Team Star

May 23, 2018, 12:54 PM

Posts: 2165
Location: Sunny Nunny
Team(s): Nuneaton Griff

Post #720 of 744 (4773 views)
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Re: [Neutral FC] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

You asked the question, I told you the answer.
The powers that be in London are doing all the sorting now whether the MFL is run from Birmingham or not.


Mr. T
Chelsea Transfer Target


May 23, 2018, 1:39 PM

Posts: 5383
Location:
Team(s):

Post #721 of 744 (4568 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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PPG at Step 6 – absolute JOKE!

The FA appears not to understand that the further down the pyramid one goes, the more fluid the situation. Clubs come and go, leagues grow and shrink while their centres of geography shift. It seems to that it would be better for the FA to confine its stricter control and regulation to Steps 1-5 and movements between them but to leave the Step 5 organisations to decide their relationship with the lower levels entirely according to their own circumstances and those of the clubs who play there.


royboy
Reserve Team Regular

May 23, 2018, 2:29 PM

Posts: 714
Location: Arnold Nottingham
Team(s): Borrowash

Post #722 of 744 (4367 views)
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Re: [Brightside] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

There seems to be a general suggestion from nest season promotion from Step 6 will be on a pooled system.

I have seen nothing official suggesting this will in fact be the case. The current rules state where a Step 6 league is a lower division of a Step 5 league promotion/relegation is determined by the league itself.

The exceptions are the WMRL, EMCL & SWP and these are only ones whose member clubs have to apply for promotion.

The champions of the WMRL can only go to the MLP and similarly from the SWP go to WP. The EMCL champions can, and have, gone to NECP, MLP, or UCP.

So to repeat is there any evidence the above is about to change from next year?


Sarumio
Man City Transfer Target!

May 23, 2018, 2:39 PM

Posts: 6329
Location: Ilminster
Team(s): Salisbury

Post #723 of 744 (4316 views)
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Re: [royboy] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
There seems to be a general suggestion from nest season promotion from Step 6 will be on a pooled system.

I have seen nothing official suggesting this will in fact be the case. The current rules state where a Step 6 league is a lower division of a Step 5 league promotion/relegation is determined by the league itself.

The exceptions are the WMRL, EMCL & SWP and these are only ones whose member clubs have to apply for promotion.

The champions of the WMRL can only go to the MLP and similarly from the SWP go to WP. The EMCL champions can, and have, gone to NECP, MLP, or UCP.

So to repeat is there any evidence the above is about to change from next year?


Well Windy said so!!!


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


May 23, 2018, 2:41 PM

Posts: 10552
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #724 of 744 (4302 views)
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Re: [royboy] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
There seems to be a general suggestion from nest season promotion from Step 6 will be on a pooled system.

I have seen nothing official suggesting this will in fact be the case. The current rules state where a Step 6 league is a lower division of a Step 5 league promotion/relegation is determined by the league itself.

The exceptions are the WMRL, EMCL & SWP and these are only ones whose member clubs have to apply for promotion.

The champions of the WMRL can only go to the MLP and similarly from the SWP go to WP. The EMCL champions can, and have, gone to NECP, MLP, or UCP.

So to repeat is there any evidence the above is about to change from next year?



The league’s have all been given the rules & regs for next season. I’d suggest emailing one! I contacted two & they both gave me the same answer. Matt Jones at the NCEL, always replies promptly & gives a straight answer.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


May 23, 2018, 2:42 PM

Posts: 10552
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #725 of 744 (4291 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
There seems to be a general suggestion from nest season promotion from Step 6 will be on a pooled system.

I have seen nothing official suggesting this will in fact be the case. The current rules state where a Step 6 league is a lower division of a Step 5 league promotion/relegation is determined by the league itself.

The exceptions are the WMRL, EMCL & SWP and these are only ones whose member clubs have to apply for promotion.

The champions of the WMRL can only go to the MLP and similarly from the SWP go to WP. The EMCL champions can, and have, gone to NECP, MLP, or UCP.

So to repeat is there any evidence the above is about to change from next year?


Well Windy said so!!!



Read my last post!!!



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9

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