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EU Withdrawal Negotiations

 

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Richard Rundle
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Aug 21, 2019, 12:42 PM

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Post #4151 of 4292 (1056 views)
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     Re: [TroubleAtMill] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to]   or Reply Privately


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So we treat it as any other border whether we leave or stay in the EU. This makes the special back stop irrelevant doesn't it? If it does the problems that it creates are solved, aren't they ?


I think you are the first person I've heard, of whatever political persuasion, leave/remain or whatever, to argue that the hard border should be restored.

You may solve the customs issue (and may not) but you'd certainly open up numerous other cans of worms.

Besides which, the UK is a party to the Good Friday agreement which states there will be no hard border on the island of Ireland. We do not want to renege on that agreement, do we?


KnowYourMarket
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Aug 21, 2019, 2:11 PM

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Post #4152 of 4292 (1024 views)
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     Re: [Yatesman] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Pardon anyone for disagreeing with you.

Keep on ranting it's the best way to convince someone of your side of the argument. If you shout long and hard enough I will be a Brexiteer before the end of October. We are mere minions we will just have to deal with the crap whatever happens. The EU membership over the last 40 odd years has made this country a terrible place. I look forward to utopia in November.



Last ground visited(update requested by Spud): Wellington . New grounds 18/19: 38

(This post was edited by KnowYourMarket on Aug 21, 2019, 2:14 PM)


TroubleAtMill
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Aug 21, 2019, 2:20 PM

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Post #4153 of 4292 (1015 views)
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In Reply To
So we treat it as any other border whether we leave or stay in the EU. This makes the special back stop irrelevant doesn't it? If it does the problems that it creates are solved, aren't they ?


I think you are the first person I've heard, of whatever political persuasion, leave/remain or whatever, to argue that the hard border should be restored.

You may solve the customs issue (and may not) but you'd certainly open up numerous other cans of worms.

Besides which, the UK is a party to the Good Friday agreement which states there will be no hard border on the island of Ireland. We do not want to renege on that agreement, do we?


Does it?

Not explicitly as far as I can see https://www.wesleyjohnston.com/...riday/full_text.html

Isn't the default outcome of hard brexit, a hard border, no matter what the good Friday agreement says, if there isn't one you can't have regulated border trade or regulated border security.

I'm asking questions as much as anything as I don't think I've been told the truth by anyone yet, on either side of the discussion.


(This post was edited by TroubleAtMill on Aug 21, 2019, 2:22 PM)


Northumbrian
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Aug 21, 2019, 4:12 PM

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Post #4154 of 4292 (974 views)
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     Re: [TroubleAtMill] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

 
Isn't the default outcome of hard brexit, a hard border, no matter what the good Friday agreement says, if there isn't one you can't have regulated border trade or regulated border security.

I'm asking questions as much as anything as I don't think I've been told the truth by anyone yet, on either side of the discussion.


Yes!
The U.K. leaving the E.U. without some agreement such as staying in the Customs Union is basically reneging on the Good Friday Agreement. The two things are not compatible.
Whether many people (particularly in England) care is another issue.


TroubleAtMill
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Aug 21, 2019, 5:32 PM

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Post #4155 of 4292 (940 views)
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In Reply To
Isn't the default outcome of hard brexit, a hard border, no matter what the good Friday agreement says, if there isn't one you can't have regulated border trade or regulated border security.

I'm asking questions as much as anything as I don't think I've been told the truth by anyone yet, on either side of the discussion.


Yes!
The U.K. leaving the E.U. without some agreement such as staying in the Customs Union is basically reneging on the Good Friday Agreement. The two things are not compatible.
Whether many people (particularly in England) care is another issue.


Not compatible with the letter of the Good Friday Agreement or the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement?


Yatesman
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Aug 21, 2019, 7:32 PM

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Post #4156 of 4292 (894 views)
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Pardon anyone for disagreeing with you.

Keep on ranting it's the best way to convince someone of your side of the argument. If you shout long and hard enough I will be a Brexiteer before the end of October. We are mere minions we will just have to deal with the crap whatever happens. The EU membership over the last 40 odd years has made this country a terrible place. I look forward to utopia in November.


I don't recall having disagreed with you as I don't recall you making a valid point worth debating.

I only know you as the person who put a bad joke on ths thread and then started having an unnecessary pop at me.

I also thought you were going to disappear as you disliked the standard of debate on here, a standard you are negatively contributing to.........btw, please don't feel the need to reply I predict it wouldn't be worth my time and effort to read it.

If you really feel so aggrieved that you do need to reply then PM me so the others don't have to suffer your pain ........cheers


(This post was edited by Yatesman on Aug 21, 2019, 7:34 PM)


Yatesman
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Aug 22, 2019, 7:21 AM

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Post #4157 of 4292 (823 views)
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Isn't the default outcome of hard brexit, a hard border, no matter what the good Friday agreement says, if there isn't one you can't have regulated border trade or regulated border security.

I'm asking questions as much as anything as I don't think I've been told the truth by anyone yet, on either side of the discussion.


Yes!
The U.K. leaving the E.U. without some agreement such as staying in the Customs Union is basically reneging on the Good Friday Agreement. The two things are not compatible.
Whether many people (particularly in England) care is another issue.


That's not true at all............

There is very little mention of the border in the GFA. Plenty about identity and co-operation but very little about trade and goods. THe people of Ireland are free to live where they choose and take whichever nationality they choose

The All Irish Economy is a consequence of EU membership and would have been threatened had there been an Irexit.

Therefore the border issue is primarily a British/Irish problem.

Seeing as both the UK and Eire want to preserve the GFA and do not intend to stop the Common Travel arrangement or any aspect of Irish identity as per the GFA then the only issue is goods and trade , not mentioned in the GFA so any hard border becomes an EU imposition


KnowYourMarket
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Aug 22, 2019, 7:33 AM

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Post #4158 of 4292 (814 views)
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     Re: [Yatesman] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Let me know when I can join in again and the method I can contact you. You suggest I disappear or if I want to reply then do it via a certain method.

I can put pointless stuff on the thread if I want thanks. It's about as interesting as the rest of the stuff on this thread.

Egg or pineapple?



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TroubleAtMill
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Aug 22, 2019, 7:37 AM

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Post #4159 of 4292 (811 views)
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Let me know when I can join in again and the method I can contact you. You suggest I disappear or if I want to reply then do it via a certain method.

I can put pointless stuff on the thread if I want thanks. It's about as interesting as the rest of the stuff on this thread.

Egg or pineapple?


Is it a good ole British egg?

Where is the pineapple imported from?

More information neededd, before I can cast my vote. Tongue


(This post was edited by TroubleAtMill on Aug 22, 2019, 7:38 AM)


KnowYourMarket
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Aug 22, 2019, 7:56 AM

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Post #4160 of 4292 (804 views)
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The pineapple is from Esh Winning. The egg's nationality is unknown but you can only throw it backwards.



Last ground visited(update requested by Spud): Wellington . New grounds 18/19: 38


TroubleAtMill
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Aug 22, 2019, 8:09 AM

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Post #4161 of 4292 (797 views)
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The pineapple is from Esh Winning. The egg's nationality is unknown but you can only throw it backwards.


The home grown Pineapple gets my vote at the moment, as the egg seems to be keeping secrets, there's no information on its nationality or whether it prefers union or league.


MelChester
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Aug 22, 2019, 8:39 AM

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Post #4162 of 4292 (788 views)
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In Reply To
The pineapple is from Esh Winning. The egg's nationality is unknown but you can only throw it backwards.


The home grown Pineapple gets my vote at the moment, as the egg seems to be keeping secrets, there's no information on its nationality or whether it prefers union or league.


They are grown in Jacob Rees Moggs Orangery, Yatesman said we've got to keep down our carbon footprint and should look for other sources of exotic fruit.


Yatesman
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Aug 22, 2019, 4:27 PM

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Post #4163 of 4292 (714 views)
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     Re: [KnowYourMarket] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to]   or Reply Privately


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Let me know when I can join in again and the method I can contact you. You suggest I disappear or if I want to reply then do it via a certain method.

I can put pointless stuff on the thread if I want thanks. It's about as interesting as the rest of the stuff on this thread.

Egg or pineapple?


Oh dear, the first snowflake of winter !)


Yatesman
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Aug 22, 2019, 8:31 PM

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Post #4164 of 4292 (666 views)
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     Re: [Yatesman] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

So , back to the Withdrawal Negotiations.............

It would seem that the Boris Effect has crossed the channel and affected our dear friends on the continent.
Boris has achieved the very thing that not a single Remainer, Expert or Emu, said he would and restarted the Withdrawal Negotiations with Merkeel and Macron both on board.

What a Guy!!


PaulC
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Aug 22, 2019, 8:47 PM

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Post #4165 of 4292 (659 views)
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So , back to the Withdrawal Negotiations.............

It would seem that the Boris Effect has crossed the channel and affected our dear friends on the continent.
Boris has achieved the very thing that not a single Remainer, Expert or Emu, said he would and restarted the Withdrawal Negotiations with Merkeel and Macron both on board.

What a Guy!!


LOL!

All he has to do is solve the backstop problem in 30 days.

He simply has to work out how to simultaneously have a border with the EU and not have a border with the EU.

Simples.


Yatesman
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Aug 22, 2019, 9:16 PM

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Post #4166 of 4292 (648 views)
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In Reply To
So , back to the Withdrawal Negotiations.............

It would seem that the Boris Effect has crossed the channel and affected our dear friends on the continent.
Boris has achieved the very thing that not a single Remainer, Expert or Emu, said he would and restarted the Withdrawal Negotiations with Merkeel and Macron both on board.

What a Guy!!


LOL!

All he has to do is solve the backstop problem in 30 days.

He simply has to work out how to simultaneously have a border with the EU and not have a border with the EU.

Simples.



I agree.............but it's only a hard border that has to be avoided.

We already import /export freight, raw materials and produce from all across the Globe through container ports/airports/ refineries and have processes and systems in place to facilitate that without border structures and quasi-military enforcement personnel.

It's not much of a stretch to suppose the same or similar systems, processes and frameworks can be tweaked to satisfy the EU's need to be in control of the tiny Irish edge of its Empire for the vehicle traffic that goes across.
The Human traffic can continue to cross to and fro unfettered and anonymously as they do now........The UK has no problem with that !


Tykeoldboy
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Aug 22, 2019, 9:39 PM

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Post #4167 of 4292 (634 views)
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I've got the answer to the Irish hard border problem. Build a wall along the border but build in toll gates, same as those used at sports grounds, to allow people to freely move between the North and the South. This will stop goods lorries which would have to pass through a checkpoint. It is radical but these are desperate times.



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.


PaulC
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Aug 22, 2019, 11:26 PM

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Post #4168 of 4292 (616 views)
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The Human traffic can continue to cross to and fro unfettered and anonymously as they do now........The UK has no problem with that !


So when Priti Useless Patel says that freedom of movement by European nationals into the UK is to end on 31 October she doesn't really mean it.


Yatesman
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Aug 22, 2019, 11:43 PM

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Post #4169 of 4292 (610 views)
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I've got the answer to the Irish hard border problem. Build a wall along the border but build in toll gates, same as those used at sports grounds, to allow people to freely move between the North and the South. This will stop goods lorries which would have to pass through a checkpoint. It is radical but these are desperate times.


Radical, probably not feasible but at least you're giving it some thought!


Yatesman
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Aug 22, 2019, 11:44 PM

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Post #4170 of 4292 (608 views)
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In Reply To
The Human traffic can continue to cross to and fro unfettered and anonymously as they do now........The UK has no problem with that !


So when Priti Useless Patel says that freedom of movement by European nationals into the UK is to end on 31 October she doesn't really mean it.


No, there will always be freedom of movement for people wishing to visit, holiday , come on business etc.


Ronsdog
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Aug 23, 2019, 2:28 AM

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Post #4171 of 4292 (584 views)
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     Re: [Yatesman] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

 
Yesterday the FT announced that the British Tech Industry has over the past 12 months seen 5.5bn of direct foreign inward investment that has created some 25,000 new jobs.

Of course the investment mainly went to New Tech start ups, Games developers, fintech companies and the like. Not 'REAL' jobs like steelworkers or car production operatives or as I like to paraphrase it .... Yesterday's jobs that will soon be swept away by robotics and new production techniques.

Strangely enough there was no mention of it on this thread.

Better to live in the 1970s along with the useless Corbyn and his acolytes. And as for the proposal for a National Goverment led by the apology for an opposition leader; seems there is no appetite for it whatsoever. Mmm?

Meantime Merkel and Macron have both alluded to a deal regarding the Irish border along the lines of Prosperity UKs proposals, not withstanding the current backstop. Merkel was quoted as saying that the backstop could be overwritten.
Now that is food for thought......

https://www.prosperity-uk.com/aacabout/


(This post was edited by Ronsdog on Aug 23, 2019, 2:54 AM)


MelChester
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Aug 23, 2019, 7:03 AM

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Post #4172 of 4292 (557 views)
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Surely on the whole it's leavers who want "yesterday's" job and remainers who embrace new jobs. I agree many jobs are doomed due to advancements.


Yatesman
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Aug 23, 2019, 7:14 AM

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Post #4173 of 4292 (554 views)
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Surely on the whole it's leavers who want "yesterday's" job and remainers who embrace new jobs. I agree many jobs are doomed due to advancements.


Surely you didn't just post that and actually mean it?

That's tongue in cheek, am I right?


Yatesman
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Aug 23, 2019, 7:20 AM

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Post #4174 of 4292 (548 views)
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Yesterday the FT announced that the British Tech Industry has over the past 12 months seen 5.5bn of direct foreign inward investment that has created some 25,000 new jobs.

Of course the investment mainly went to New Tech start ups, Games developers, fintech companies and the like. Not 'REAL' jobs like steelworkers or car production operatives or as I like to paraphrase it .... Yesterday's jobs that will soon be swept away by robotics and new production techniques.

Strangely enough there was no mention of it on this thread.

Better to live in the 1970s along with the useless Corbyn and his acolytes. And as for the proposal for a National Goverment led by the apology for an opposition leader; seems there is no appetite for it whatsoever. Mmm?

Meantime Merkel and Macron have both alluded to a deal regarding the Irish border along the lines of Prosperity UKs proposals, not withstanding the current backstop. Merkel was quoted as saying that the backstop could be overwritten.
Now that is food for thought......

https://www.prosperity-uk.com/aacabout/


Phew.............. That's a heck of read, but how refreshing to access something that has been approached with a pragmatic, solution based, positive attide.

It proves that, with co-operation, a willing approach and respect for the democratic decision of the British electorate solutions to the issues are attainable and viable.

It also shows that the UK and Eire need to sit down, thrash out the details bi-laterally and only involve the EU when absolutely necessary.

This is a UK/Eire issue predominately and an UK/EU issue secondarily.


Richard Rundle
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Aug 23, 2019, 7:37 AM

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Post #4175 of 4292 (540 views)
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This is a UK/Eire issue predominately and an UK/EU issue secondarily.


No, 100% wrong. It's a matter between the UK & the EU. Ireland have made this clear over the last three years.

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