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EU Withdrawal Negotiations

 

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Yatesman
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Jul 29, 2019, 9:37 PM

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Post #4051 of 4292 (1452 views)
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     Re: [leohoenig] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to]   or Reply Privately


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Are we leaving the globe now?


That's wierd you ask that because I was saying the polar opposite.

We are about to rejoin the globe, but as a newly independant, sovereign nation.

Excitiing, isn't it?


Yatesman
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Jul 30, 2019, 7:19 AM

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Post #4052 of 4292 (1395 views)
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     Re: [Yatesman] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

In case any one was in any doubt that they are being taken for mugs by the BBC , here is a good analysis of the BBC's relentless and insidious negativity regarding Brexit.

https://briefingsforbrexit.com/...avlovian-experiment/

Last night's news was another typical example where, to bury the positivity of Boris's momentum, they focussed on a warning from French firm Vauxhall that they will pull out of Ellesmere Port if their profits suffer post Brexit...........Like we didn't know Companies realign their operations when they aren't profitable. There was no detail of why this was an imminent possibiility other than to say they didn't know if No Deal was going to affect costs and there were two possibilities,
a) It might
b) it might not.

Instead of imagining new Project Fear scenarios would the BBC be better commenting once it had hard evidence of the Govt's No Deal preperations??


007Dale
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Jul 30, 2019, 7:43 AM

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Post #4053 of 4292 (1393 views)
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     Re: [Yatesman] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

I am absolutely certain that when the dust has settled, Brexit delivered and after a general election - Boris will exact sweet revenge on the BBC.


(This post was edited by 007Dale on Jul 30, 2019, 8:37 AM)


broodleyhoo
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Jul 30, 2019, 8:28 AM

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Post #4054 of 4292 (1375 views)
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     Re: [Yatesman] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

I only come here for intermittent light amusement, so my apologies for the tardy reply.

I note that you don't question my maths nor the point made in my analogy, but that instead your riposte is effectively to shout louder.

It's very simple.

Leave got more votes than remain.
The total voting for leave was less than a majority of the electorate.

Both facts are mathematically correct.
I can accept both.
Not everyone can

The fact that in setting up the referendum, Cameron made no provision for such an obvious outcome is the main reason why we are where we are today.


broodleyhoo
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Jul 30, 2019, 8:38 AM

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Post #4055 of 4292 (1372 views)
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     Re: [Yatesman] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

The positivity of Boris's momentum you say?

This positivity seems to be based entirely on bravura speeches with little detail detailing projects that will cost huge amounts of money that, in some cases are in direct conflict with policies that he happily voted through in the previous 8 years.

Examples?

a) The plan to have 10 000 more police officers. This despite voting for policies that produced cuts in the police and border forces since 2010

b) 39 bn for a new rail line between Leeds and Manchester. This despite there being no feasible route for such a line.

c) A reported huge advertising blitz to point out that a no deal Brexit will be fine. Despite previously being of an opinion that it was a scandal that the govt spent huge amounts of money telling us to vote remain.

People might take your project fear scenarios more seriously if you could post examples of "project hope" deals that are waiting to happen as soon as the UK breaks free from the shackles (etc etc)


007Dale
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Jul 30, 2019, 9:00 AM

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Post #4056 of 4292 (1364 views)
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In Reply To
I only come here for intermittent light amusement, so my apologies for the tardy reply.

I note that you don't question my maths nor the point made in my analogy, but that instead your riposte is effectively to shout louder.

It's very simple.

Leave got more votes than remain.
The total voting for leave was less than a majority of the electorate.

Both facts are mathematically correct.
I can accept both.
Not everyone can

The fact that in setting up the referendum, Cameron made no provision for such an obvious outcome is the main reason why we are where we are today.


I think there is an argument for having major constitutional change decided by a majority of the electorate.


jon b
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Jul 30, 2019, 12:15 PM

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Post #4057 of 4292 (1315 views)
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I am absolutely certain that when the dust has settled, Brexit delivered and after a general election - Boris will exact sweet revenge on the BBC.


Really? Well despite his pretend bonhomie Boris does carry grudges.

Shutting down critical voices is something the far right and far left practice.

.


jon b
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Jul 30, 2019, 1:17 PM

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Post #4058 of 4292 (1281 views)
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In Reply To

Leave got more votes than remain.
The total voting for leave was less than a majority of the electorate.

Both facts are mathematically correct.
I can accept both.
Not everyone can

The fact that in setting up the referendum, Cameron made no provision for such an obvious outcome is the main reason why we are where we are today.


True. Cameron thought he could blag his way through. Like another Public School windbag we've been landed with.

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be evidence of a major change in sentiment in the thinking of the electorate. In those circumstances I think we have to put into effect the outcome of the 2016 Referendum and 2017 General Election confirmation. Otherwise there'd be a democratic deficit dangerous to our social/political fabric.

Not that achieving Brexit doesn't bring with it plenty of dangers to the unity and prosperity of the UK.

I'd have thought the way out of this godawful mess is to somehow achieve an exit deal that is least painful for both us and the EU.

Whether Johnson can achieve that is the big question.

.


Towlawtom
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Jul 30, 2019, 3:44 PM

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Post #4059 of 4292 (1224 views)
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I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


Towlawtom
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Jul 30, 2019, 7:38 PM

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leohoenig
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Jul 30, 2019, 7:43 PM

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Post #4061 of 4292 (1137 views)
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In Reply To


Which I assume is exactly why it is now on the table
Mad



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



Towlawtom
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Jul 30, 2019, 8:05 PM

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Post #4062 of 4292 (1125 views)
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More lies from Boris Johnson Today He said to Welsh farmers that there will be no tariffs after a no deal Brexit. This is a whopping great big lie. Tariffs will be automatic by virtue of WTO Rules. But why let inconvenient facts get in the way of “optimism”.

No doubt The Welsh Farmers will be ecstatic when cheap imported lamb and bleached American chicken floods the market. But hey-ho, that’s what the majority of them wanted!



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !

(This post was edited by Towlawtom on Jul 30, 2019, 8:17 PM)


Yatesman
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Jul 30, 2019, 9:19 PM

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Post #4063 of 4292 (1089 views)
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In Reply To
I am absolutely certain that when the dust has settled, Brexit delivered and after a general election - Boris will exact sweet revenge on the BBC.


Really? Well despite his pretend bonhomie Boris does carry grudges.

Shutting down critical voices is something the far right and far left practice.

.


The BBC is the far left.....

The bias is shocking and being ramped up.

Had to laugh today on Radio 2, Vanessa Fetz, standing in for Jeremy Vine, had a feature on how Farmers would be suffering post Brexit. She was absolutely gobsmacked and struggling to comprehend that every farmer that came on supported Leaving and the new opportunities on offer from Leaving...........Finally, no doubt after some frantic phone calls they finally got hpold of their go to , so called expert, to angrily pour cold water on thhe whole idea. He was allowed to spout his propoganda unchallenged ( win which he lied about the UK not being able to support farming post-Brexit) and after his Remainerrant they changed the subject.

Just a little biased then!!


KnowYourMarket
Man City Transfer Target!


Jul 30, 2019, 10:38 PM

Posts: 10969
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Post #4064 of 4292 (1061 views)
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Right wingers think the BBC is biased and left wingers do too...

What I do know is the BBC is now obsessed with the modern phenomenon of tittle tattle and shit stirring. All guided by the printed press.

Brexiteers are not changing their mind and keep banging the same drum and likewise remainers. We have a divided country and that will not change in the foreseeable future. I do not think that creates optimism whatever someone's viewpoint on the matter.

As the populist opinion is best I am off to watch recordings of Love Island.



Last ground visited(update requested by Spud): Wellington . New grounds 18/19: 38


jon b
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Jul 31, 2019, 3:43 AM

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Post #4065 of 4292 (1006 views)
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Yes, it feels like we're stuck in Groundhog Day.

Given my current negative reaction whenever I see/hear a politician, I think I'll try to mimic our MPs & MEPs and take a break from Brexit for August. September, with headless chicken panic time at Westminster, will be here soon enough.

Appropriately for Groundhog Day, I seem to remember trying to do the same thing last summer.

.


(This post was edited by jon b on Jul 31, 2019, 3:44 AM)


broodleyhoo
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Aug 1, 2019, 8:35 AM

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Post #4066 of 4292 (910 views)
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I know.

There's no point.

But the BBC being the far left would explain why Mr. Farage has the greatest number of appearances of any politician on Question Time.


broodleyhoo
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Aug 1, 2019, 8:48 AM

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Post #4067 of 4292 (906 views)
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     Re: [jon b] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

It's certainly not the first time and it certainly won't be the last, but we're being taken for mugs.

How so?

1. Build up the possibility of a 'No Deal'

2. Keep the paranoia going with a few well-placed leaks throughout August and jingoistic stuff at conference season in September

3. At the last minute Johnson sorts out a deal

4. Returns home claiming a great diplomatic and economic victory, modestly(!) paints himself the hero of the hour and styles himself as the person who has brought home what we all (sic) want....and probably goes to the country to get a massive majority.

Of course in reality, such a deal will be to all intents and purposes a re-badged version of Theresa's doomed deal - not a 'backstop' (how negative a word is that??) but a managed transitional interface arrangement (or some such tripe).

How else could it be otherwise? What leverage does the UK have to materially affect the position of the 27?

How does it go? : "This is what we want - and if we don't get it we're leaving" .

All this is ultimately irrelevant - the smart people, the movers and shakers, the money men who control our lives all know there'll be some kind of deal and have factored that into their business plans for 2020 onwards. Of course we'll deal with 27 neighbouring and wealthy nations, and the rest of the world as well.

Just not on such good terms.

The next three months is just a puppet show for the plebs.


007Dale
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Aug 1, 2019, 8:57 AM

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Post #4068 of 4292 (901 views)
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In Reply To
It's certainly not the first time and it certainly won't be the last, but we're being taken for mugs.

How so?

1. Build up the possibility of a 'No Deal'

2. Keep the paranoia going with a few well-placed leaks throughout August and jingoistic stuff at conference season in September

3. At the last minute Johnson sorts out a deal

4. Returns home claiming a great diplomatic and economic victory, modestly(!) paints himself the hero of the hour and styles himself as the person who has brought home what we all (sic) want....and probably goes to the country to get a massive majority.

Of course in reality, such a deal will be to all intents and purposes a re-badged version of Theresa's doomed deal - not a 'backstop' (how negative a word is that??) but a managed transitional interface arrangement (or some such tripe).

How else could it be otherwise? What leverage does the UK have to materially affect the position of the 27?

How does it go? : "This is what we want - and if we don't get it we're leaving" .

All this is ultimately irrelevant - the smart people, the movers and shakers, the money men who control our lives all know there'll be some kind of deal and have factored that into their business plans for 2020 onwards. Of course we'll deal with 27 neighbouring and wealthy nations, and the rest of the world as well.

Just not on such good terms.

The next three months is just a puppet show for the plebs.


Struggling to find anything wrong with with you’ve described. Sounds like a fine plan.


broodleyhoo
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Aug 1, 2019, 9:33 AM

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Post #4069 of 4292 (887 views)
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     Re: [007Dale] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

I'm glad we agree on where we are as a nation.

But excuse me if I can't agree that the situation as described is a fine plan given that

a) We've wasted 3 years
b) We've wasted untold amounts of money and man-hours
c) We've trashed our political reputation in Europe
d) We've trashed the processes of our Westminster democracy

all to achieve a situation where we have gained the freedom to be slightly worse off than before.

I'm not assigning blame for those 4 outcomes, but, just as my evaluation of the way forward seems to make sense so does, I believe, that conclusion of the path we have travelled.


Towlawtom
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Aug 1, 2019, 12:10 PM

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Post #4070 of 4292 (855 views)
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/business-49183324

The government seem to be spending rather a lot on their no deal brexit

Heres an idea. Let's spend it on the NHS instead!



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


Mr. T
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Aug 1, 2019, 1:46 PM

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Post #4071 of 4292 (822 views)
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But the BBC being the far left would explain why Mr. Farage has the greatest number of appearances of any politician on Question Time.

In which he would almost always be outnumbered on the panel by EU supporters.


steve walker
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Aug 1, 2019, 6:44 PM

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Post #4072 of 4292 (759 views)
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     Re: [Mr. T] EU Withdrawal Negotiations [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

I remember switching on BBC News when the local election results were coming in. As the lead story they were running with the headline "Labour and the Conservatives lose hundreds of seats in the local elections"
Factually correct but at that moment in time Labour had lost 80 and the Conservatives 680.
I now have Sky News running in the background even though I have to put up with the awful Kay Burley in the afternoon and haven't looked at BBC News since.


Yatesman
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Aug 1, 2019, 9:53 PM

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Post #4073 of 4292 (716 views)
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In Reply To
But the BBC being the far left would explain why Mr. Farage has the greatest number of appearances of any politician on Question Time.

In which he would almost always be outnumbered on the panel by EU supporters.

Exactly, The BBC have tried many times to set him up for a fall and, much to the chagrin of the BBC, Farage comes out on top and comes up smelling of roses.
Still, at least we haven't had to suffer the truly awful , if not ridiculous, pair of over preening know- nothing numpties , Will Self and Eddie Izzard for a while .


Yatesman
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Aug 1, 2019, 9:58 PM

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Post #4074 of 4292 (712 views)
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In Reply To
I'm glad we agree on where we are as a nation.

But excuse me if I can't agree that the situation as described is a fine plan given that

a) We've wasted 3 years
b) We've wasted untold amounts of money and man-hours
c) We've trashed our political reputation in Europe
d) We've trashed the processes of our Westminster democracy

all to achieve a situation where we have gained the freedom to be slightly worse off than before.

I'm not assigning blame for those 4 outcomes, but, just as my evaluation of the way forward seems to make sense so does, I believe, that conclusion of the path we have travelled.


I disagree......Guy Verhofstadt is now overtly proposing to impose federalism on EU nations.....
Remainers DIDN't KNOW what they were voting for


Mr. T
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Aug 1, 2019, 10:19 PM

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Post #4075 of 4292 (706 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
But the BBC being the far left would explain why Mr. Farage has the greatest number of appearances of any politician on Question Time.

In which he would almost always be outnumbered on the panel by EU supporters.

Exactly...

When he equalled the record for the most appearances in February last year, who did he join at the top of the list? None other than the member for Rushcliffe...

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