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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
Non League Projections 2018/19

 



wazzafan
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Oct 2, 2017, 7:56 AM

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Non League Projections 2018/19 Can't Post or

Here's to next 8 months!

Spreadsheet:http://goo.gl/MW6EFU

Step 1:http://goo.gl/UTHzqq
Step 2:http://goo.gl/oRDNEd
Step 3:http://goo.gl/HDFmG2
Step 4:http://goo.gl/V2YxhA
Step 5:http://goo.gl/RSUfK7
Step 6:http://goo.gl/cwVvN9


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 2, 2017, 8:36 AM

Posts: 10552
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Great work as usual RobSmile



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


leohoenig
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Oct 2, 2017, 9:21 AM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

For the new Step 6 leagues, are you promoting more than would be standard from Step 7, or creating them by pooling all resources?
Has the FA actually confirmed both new Step 6 divisions will come about?



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



SWP-Phil
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Oct 2, 2017, 9:31 AM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Great work but from a ground grading point of view certainly Ludgvan will not be Step 6 next season, and the projections assume all clubs without a current Grade G will comply by March 31st, not so sure they all will !



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DarkSithLord
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Oct 2, 2017, 9:40 AM

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Re: [SWP-Phil] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

From a Ground Grading POV I dont believe Truro City would be Step 1 either?



"the force is strong with this one"


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 2, 2017, 9:44 AM

Posts: 10552
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Re: [leohoenig] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
For the new Step 6 leagues, are you promoting more than would be standard from Step 7, or creating them by pooling all resources?
Has the FA actually confirmed both new Step 6 divisions will come about?



The FA have said that there's going to be a bit of both & yes both step 6 leagues will start next season. The FA will announce which league is running them this month & probably this week.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


KnowYourMarket
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 2, 2017, 10:39 AM

Posts: 10973
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Re: [SWP-Phil] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Great work but from a ground grading point of view certainly Ludgvan will not be Step 6 next season, and the projections assume all clubs without a current Grade G will comply by March 31st, not so sure they all will !


I would say there are quite a few teams in those step 6 leagues that will not either apply or have the relevant grading...



Last ground visited(update requested by Spud): Wellington . New grounds 18/19: 38


exile
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Oct 2, 2017, 10:40 AM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The projections as they stand at the moment makes the North/South Split in the Evostik unworkable.

There are clubs just a few miles apart in different divisions.

At the moment (long way to go I know) there are 21 western clubs and 19 eastern so it wouldn't need much of a tweak.


yorkieexile
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Oct 2, 2017, 10:44 AM

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Re: [exile] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Wherever the boundaries are drawn, there will be teams close by each other placed in different divisions.


exile
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Oct 2, 2017, 11:04 AM

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Re: [yorkieexile] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I completely agree of course but in this case the few miles will be the Pennines so I think its a sensible idea.

I think it was voted on though a couple of years back and clubs opted for the status quo.


yorkieexile
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Oct 2, 2017, 11:06 AM

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Re: [exile] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

If only the Pennines would keep out all people from the badlandsWink


Sarumio
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Oct 2, 2017, 11:50 AM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

If you're promoting all Step 7 league champions, then you need to include the Mid Sussex League too?


wazzafan
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Oct 2, 2017, 11:56 AM

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or

You're right. Indeed I need too! Thanks for the reminder.


wazzafan
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Oct 2, 2017, 12:00 PM

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Re: [SWP-Phil] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or

You're right Phil. At least half of those clubs currently failing ground grading won't pass it by the 31st March. The problem is the guesswork invlved as to who will get it and not. It's just a lot easier for me to relegate those in the relegation places at this stage.

Same goes for those promoted from Step 7. I have an idea of some clubs wantng to take the step up, but again, for saving the cherry picking of certain clubs ahead of others, keeping it as the 1st placed side until the applications are released is the easiest utcome for me at this point.


wazzafan
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Oct 2, 2017, 12:02 PM

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Re: [DarkSithLord] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or

All guesswork, Truro may well get the grade B+ required to play in the playoffs and go up. I can't just cancel their promotion chances yet.


007Dale
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Oct 2, 2017, 12:45 PM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Excellent work.

Completely agree with your approach - until we know otherwise, assume grading is achieved.


Yorkstar
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Oct 2, 2017, 1:16 PM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Again, excellent work getting these produced.

However, I can tell you that no team will be promoted to Step 6 from the York League. No clubs facilities are good suitable at present...

And that is before the mess that is the new community stadium (or more likely that this time of year - "muddy put").


Yorkstar
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Oct 2, 2017, 1:20 PM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

@wazzafan - Who do you have as leaving Step 6 leagues and being relegated to Step 7?


Yorkstar
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Oct 2, 2017, 1:36 PM

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Re: [Yorkstar] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
@wazzafan - Who do you have as leaving Step 6 leagues and being relegated to Step 7?


Answering my own question - From NCE1, it would be Brigg and Retford going down.


Sarumio
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Oct 2, 2017, 2:36 PM

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Re: [Yorkstar] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
@wazzafan - Who do you have as leaving Step 6 leagues and being relegated to Step 7?


Following on from this - do you have a list of clubs that you currently have down in your projections as being relegated to Step 7 - I cannot be bothered to work them all out.


Rebel Yeller
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Oct 2, 2017, 4:12 PM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

For info... on the Step 6 map you show Laleham but not Staines Lammas, currently at Step 6. They both share the same ground, but the ground is way short of Step 6 standard and Staines Lammas are only in CCL1 on historical rights. Lights, or indeed any seats, won't be arriving anytime soon so neither club will be at Step 6 next year unless they move, which is very unlikely.


wazzafan
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Oct 2, 2017, 4:40 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or

I have all the teams in the relegation places at Step 6 in the 'Step 6 Relegations' column on the spreadsheet. Just move east from the Step 4 projections and you'll find it eventually Smile


wazzafan
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Oct 2, 2017, 4:44 PM

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Re: [Yorkstar] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or

Yes, the York League is one of a few I'm aware of that have no clubs with current facilities capable of Step 6. As you've already mentioned however, the key words are 'at present' as there is always the chance someone might rise up from nowhere and go for it.


wazzafan
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Oct 2, 2017, 4:50 PM

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Re: [Rebel Yeller] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or

This is because Staines Lammas are currently in the top 3 of the CC1 and are therefore on the Step 5 map as a promoted side.

Laleham are top of the Elite league and are on the spreadsheet purely by their league position.

I'm aware of all Step 6 clubs without the grade. I'm gonna give them every chance to get the grade by 31st March.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 2, 2017, 6:13 PM

Posts: 10552
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Yes, the York League is one of a few I'm aware of that have no clubs with current facilities capable of Step 6. As you've already mentioned however, the key words are 'at present' as there is always the chance someone might rise up from nowhere and go for it.



The loophole used for promotion by some step 7 clubs. Whereby teams can be joint tenants at grounds. Shows that it's possible that any team could be promoted under the right circumstances.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


Sarumio
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Oct 2, 2017, 7:17 PM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I have all the teams in the relegation places at Step 6 in the 'Step 6 Relegations' column on the spreadsheet. Just move east from the Step 4 projections and you'll find it eventually Smile


Ah thanks - didn't look at the spreadsheet earlier, just the maps. Spreadsheet looks excellent.

My one question would be the Hellenic Div Ones. Why are you limiting them to 16 in your projections. Surely they could both run with 18? Why send Henley, Rocks, NCA and Thame Rangers down unnecessarily?


wazzafan
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Oct 2, 2017, 7:26 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or

I suppose your right actually! No real need for them to go down with the vacancies there.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 2, 2017, 8:43 PM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I suppose your right actually! No real need for them to go down with the vacancies there.



The NWCL are expecting no teams to be relegated from step 6. You could add the ECL & then possibility the SSML.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


Sarumio
Man City Transfer Target!

Oct 3, 2017, 9:19 AM

Posts: 6329
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I suppose your right actually! No real need for them to go down with the vacancies there.





Other options to cut down on Step 6 relegations...


Directly transfer the currently down-as-relegated Pegasus Juniors to the Helleinc Div One West.
Leave Pewsey Vale in the Hellenic instead of transferring them and save Folland Sports in the Wessex.
Transfer Chippenham Park and Corsham to the Hellenic and save Calne Town and Sherborne Town the drop from the Western.

The both Hellenic Div Ones up to full compliment

Reprieve Cornard United as I see no reason for their demotion?

Transfer Park View to ESL1 – save Codicote in SSML1

Transfer Huntingdon Town to ECL1 – save Oakham United in UCL1


(This post was edited by Sarumio on Oct 3, 2017, 10:10 AM)


genesimmons
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Oct 3, 2017, 1:06 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Yes, the York League is one of a few I'm aware of that have no clubs with current facilities capable of Step 6. As you've already mentioned however, the key words are 'at present' as there is always the chance someone might rise up from nowhere and go for it.



The loophole used for promotion by some step 7 clubs. Whereby teams can be joint tenants at grounds. Shows that it's possible that any team could be promoted under the right circumstances.

What i gathered is that teams could not ground share with a team in order to gain promotion. However if they have even ground shareing for a season or two before promotion its ok. a very odd rule. Then again the FA seem to constantly move the goal posts, one rule for one club one for another. Lack of step 7 promotion in the north east over the years has reprieved manier a club, some on a few occasions



You wanted the best, you got the best


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 3, 2017, 1:12 PM

Posts: 10552
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

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Re: [genesimmons] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Yes, the York League is one of a few I'm aware of that have no clubs with current facilities capable of Step 6. As you've already mentioned however, the key words are 'at present' as there is always the chance someone might rise up from nowhere and go for it.



The loophole used for promotion by some step 7 clubs. Whereby teams can be joint tenants at grounds. Shows that it's possible that any team could be promoted under the right circumstances.

What i gathered is that teams could not ground share with a team in order to gain promotion. However if they have even ground shareing for a season or two before promotion its ok. a very odd rule. Then again the FA seem to constantly move the goal posts, one rule for one club one for another. Lack of step 7 promotion in the north east over the years has reprieved manier a club, some on a few occasions



Groundsharing to gain promotion isn't allowed. If the club becomes 'equal or primary tenants' then they are classed as not groundsharing. This is the loophole.
Pinchbeck Utd for instance, became equal tenants with Spalding Utd. At a council owned ground & they only started playing there at the start of this season. They passed the ground grading & were promoted at the end of last season.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Oct 3, 2017, 1:17 PM)


exile
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Oct 3, 2017, 3:29 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

What sort of facilities are required to play at Step 7? The Driffield clubs in Humber One(level 8) play on school and multi-pitch set-ups with no spectator facilities but one of them was in the Premier Division a couple of years ago.

Presume promotion to Step 6 is still ground graded?


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 3, 2017, 6:09 PM

Posts: 10552
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

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Re: [exile] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
What sort of facilities are required to play at Step 7? The Driffield clubs in Humber One(level 8) play on school and multi-pitch set-ups with no spectator facilities but one of them was in the Premier Division a couple of years ago.

Presume promotion to Step 6 is still ground graded?



This is the FA's step 7 requirements are on the link below.
http://www.thefa.com/...ntsjune12.ashx?la=en
Yes there still is a ground grading requirement for promotion at step 6.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


Dribble!
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Oct 6, 2017, 8:23 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Brilliant work and agree with your approach but for information unlikely any Suffolk and Ipswich league clubs will put in for promotion - none have lights or a y ground close to being ready for promotion - whilst a few Anglian Combination, Cambridgeshire and Essex & Suffolk Border league clubs do have the right facilities



Last New ground; Benhall St Mary, Games in 2019/20 Season; 61, New Grounds this Season; 30, Next scheduled game: Ipswich Town v Coventry City - FAC (10/12/19)
http://portmanroadtothesansiro.blogspot.co.uk/


borninchesham
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Nov 23, 2017, 7:32 PM

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Re: [Dribble!] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Thought I'd move this back up the forum as I'd forgotten to look at these projections recently!


wazzafan
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Dec 3, 2017, 6:14 PM

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Re: [borninchesham] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or

Apologies for not keeping this as up to date as possible. I was on holiday last week, however, I'm also going through a house move as well as a new job which takes much more of my time. The spreadsheet will take my priority but it may well be updated every two weeks until further notice. As for the maps they may well be done when I can. Hopefully once the new year comes I can get back to updating it every week.

The Spreadsheet is up to date as of today. Thanks for your patience.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Dec 3, 2017, 9:38 PM

Posts: 10552
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The two step 6 leagues in East Anglia/Essex, will be called the Eastern Senior League One North & Eastern Senior League One South. This has been confirmed by the ECL chairman.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


THDrummer1
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Dec 7, 2017, 1:18 PM

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Post #38 of 744 (13264 views)
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Great work on doing the projections; however, I'm unclear on something.
You have Notts/Derbys clubs such as Shirebrook, Clipstone, Ollerton etc. laterally moving from the NCEL D1 into the EMCL; is this happening due to definite boundaries being brought in?
I ask, as from my understanding the EMCL is a 'stand alone' league where only the winners can get promoted and this can only be achieved by applying for promotion; as such why would these clubs voluntarily move?
Thanks in advance.


windydcfc
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Dec 7, 2017, 3:23 PM

Posts: 10552
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Re: [THDrummer1] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Great work on doing the projections; however, I'm unclear on something.
You have Notts/Derbys clubs such as Shirebrook, Clipstone, Ollerton etc. laterally moving from the NCEL D1 into the EMCL; is this happening due to definite boundaries being brought in?
I ask, as from my understanding the EMCL is a 'stand alone' league where only the winners can get promoted and this can only be achieved by applying for promotion; as such why would these clubs voluntarily move?
Thanks in advance.



The FA's rules allow for teams to be laterally moved & the clubs/leagues have been warned that there will be a lot of changes for next season. I agree with the point about the EMCL single promotion spot and there are numerous threads that have discussed this issue.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


youngster
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Dec 9, 2017, 12:21 PM

Posts: 3295
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Interesting thread that totally dispels what we expected over here in Suffolk.
We thought the new step four league would take in the South Essex clubs, thus sending the Isthmain North further North. So instead of playing Tilbury etc next season, us Suffolk clubs would be playing Cambridgeshire clubs that had been switched from the Southern League.


ryzaemm
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Dec 10, 2017, 3:39 PM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Evesham looks extremely out of place in the Central league and still look better suited to the Southern leagues (could justify either really but West looks more natural fit). Any thoughts?


Andy Mac
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Dec 10, 2017, 9:28 PM

Posts: 664
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Re: [ryzaemm] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Is there anyone on here doing the Step 5 to Step 4 PPG tables this year? Thanks.


Mr. T
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Dec 10, 2017, 11:23 PM

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Re: [Andy Mac] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Here: http://bit.ly/2017Step4and5


windydcfc
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Dec 16, 2017, 7:43 AM

Posts: 10552
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Looking at the Map for step 4, I wonder if the FALC would consider moving the 4 teams from the south Lincs/Peterborough area. From the NPL1S & into the SLP1E. Replacing them with the 4 teams from in & around the Birmingham area that are currently in the SLP1E.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


stourboy
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Dec 18, 2017, 9:51 AM

Posts: 1571
Location: Stourbridge
Team(s): Stourbridge FC, Sheffield Wednesday

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Lots to like about Stourbridge's potential new division, but still plenty of tough away trips in terms of distance there - would be interesting to see how the overall total mileage compares to this season's NPL, as other than Workington and Whitby there aren't too many horrendous journeys in there, whereas in the proposal all the dots east of Kettering will be long and arduous journeys - if not in mileage then certainly in travel time.


gresleyfcfan
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Dec 18, 2017, 9:00 PM

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In Reply To
Looking at the Map for step 4, I wonder if the FALC would consider moving the 4 teams from the south Lincs/Peterborough area. From the NPL1S & into the SLP1E. Replacing them with the 4 teams from in & around the Birmingham area that are currently in the SLP1E.


I'd prefer that. To lose Corby to that division but keep 4 horrendous journeys (and we're one of the nearest teams to that) Colwyn to Spalding would be awful... I'd happily swap those and keep the 4 near Brum


kirby knitters
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Dec 18, 2017, 9:08 PM

Posts: 18508
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You may have loads of fixtures around Birmingham next season!


gresleyfcfan
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Dec 19, 2017, 1:53 PM

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Re: [kirby knitters] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

If relegated yes, I just think that we'll have JUST enough to avoid it. Having not changed our budget since 2012, we have gone from a top 5 budget to a bottom 3, showing how far things have moved in the last few years. Basford are taking plaudits but they're essentially a lower conference north squad playing at Step 4 so of course they'll be winning most matches.


kirby knitters
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Dec 19, 2017, 2:21 PM

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Re: [gresleyfcfan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

A few of us were talking about Gresley the other week and wondering if Quailey has something on the club. It's astonishing that he still has a job at your club. Even allowing for the budget cuts you mention you must still surely be aiming higher than the current season after season of struggles.


gresleyfcfan
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Dec 19, 2017, 5:12 PM

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In Reply To
A few of us were talking about Gresley the other week and wondering if Quailey has something on the club. It's astonishing that he still has a job at your club. Even allowing for the budget cuts you mention you must still surely be aiming higher than the current season after season of struggles.


Realistically yeah but he works for free and is a good bloke who wants to succeed. There aren't many other options locally either at this moment so it's either upheaval and the unknown or believe that the current are good enough. We've been good away from home and struggle to do it in front of the home fans on what is a pitch that doesn't suit our style. Turnover of players is big due to us not using contracts but overall the lads like Melbourne & Morris have been excellent. Needed to keep Chitiza last year who worked so hard and Mwanyongo who was coming back to us this year until Stamford put him on a contract for 4x the amount we could offer. I'd consider 17th about our "place" right now to be honest.


Sarumio
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Dec 19, 2017, 8:00 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
A few of us were talking about Gresley the other week and wondering if Quailey has something on the club. It's astonishing that he still has a job at your club. Even allowing for the budget cuts you mention you must still surely be aiming higher than the current season after season of struggles.


Realistically yeah but he works for free and is a good bloke who wants to succeed. There aren't many other options locally either at this moment so it's either upheaval and the unknown or believe that the current are good enough. We've been good away from home and struggle to do it in front of the home fans on what is a pitch that doesn't suit our style. Turnover of players is big due to us not using contracts but overall the lads like Melbourne & Morris have been excellent. Needed to keep Chitiza last year who worked so hard and Mwanyongo who was coming back to us this year until Stamford put him on a contract for 4x the amount we could offer. I'd consider 17th about our "place" right now to be honest.





I've always found Gresley a bit of an oddity. I mean, Church Gresley, ok a fairly large village, more like a small town, but even so Rovers always punched above their weight. Way above their weight in reality. Bit like a Histon, but over a slightly longer sustained period. But without association to a larger conurbation in which to attract support, were never likely to remain where they were in the long term.

As a village side, I'd say lower half Step 4 is about right for them at present.

Question, have the club never thought about ditching the Gresley name? And becoming the representative side of Swadlincote? You know, that fairly large town on Gresley's doorstep, that has NO adult Saturday mens football team of its own, anywhere, in any league in the country!

Or would that be considered "selling your soul"?

Didn't work for Emley when they took on the Wakefield moniker, but it has worked well for a lot of other teams


Would the club get more supports, more sponsorship, and more publicity as Swadlincote Town or Swadlincote Rovers, than they do at present as Gresley?


(This post was edited by Sarumio on Dec 19, 2017, 8:03 PM)


Andy Mac
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Dec 19, 2017, 10:24 PM

Posts: 664
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According to every one of Gresley’s match reports, the only reason that they’re down in the bottom two is bad luck or poor officiating...

Still, it’s good to see an admission at long last that Gresley FC bought their way into the NPL, despite vehemently denying it at the time!


(This post was edited by Andy Mac on Dec 19, 2017, 10:26 PM)


kirby knitters
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Dec 19, 2017, 10:40 PM

Posts: 18508
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Hey at least you have Hannah Dingley your side of the border and long may it stay that way.Wink


gresleyfcfan
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Dec 20, 2017, 8:47 AM

Posts: 511
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
A few of us were talking about Gresley the other week and wondering if Quailey has something on the club. It's astonishing that he still has a job at your club. Even allowing for the budget cuts you mention you must still surely be aiming higher than the current season after season of struggles.


Realistically yeah but he works for free and is a good bloke who wants to succeed. There aren't many other options locally either at this moment so it's either upheaval and the unknown or believe that the current are good enough. We've been good away from home and struggle to do it in front of the home fans on what is a pitch that doesn't suit our style. Turnover of players is big due to us not using contracts but overall the lads like Melbourne & Morris have been excellent. Needed to keep Chitiza last year who worked so hard and Mwanyongo who was coming back to us this year until Stamford put him on a contract for 4x the amount we could offer. I'd consider 17th about our "place" right now to be honest.





I've always found Gresley a bit of an oddity. I mean, Church Gresley, ok a fairly large village, more like a small town, but even so Rovers always punched above their weight. Way above their weight in reality. Bit like a Histon, but over a slightly longer sustained period. But without association to a larger conurbation in which to attract support, were never likely to remain where they were in the long term.

As a village side, I'd say lower half Step 4 is about right for them at present.

Question, have the club never thought about ditching the Gresley name? And becoming the representative side of Swadlincote? You know, that fairly large town on Gresley's doorstep, that has NO adult Saturday mens football team of its own, anywhere, in any league in the country!

Or would that be considered "selling your soul"?

Didn't work for Emley when they took on the Wakefield moniker, but it has worked well for a lot of other teams


Would the club get more supports, more sponsorship, and more publicity as Swadlincote Town or Swadlincote Rovers, than they do at present as Gresley?


It's a good point but as Gresley is just a part of Swadlincote now I don't know if it would make any difference. Maybe in terms of some sponsorship but that's not worth ditching 100+ years of history over the two clubs. The hardest thing currently is that schools here are overtaken with Burton Albion madness, my local school whose pupils were always gresley have sponsored two BA players, it's difficult to sell things to people with that influence just over the water etc.


In Reply To
According to every one of Gresley’s match reports, the only reason that they’re down in the bottom two is bad luck or poor officiating...

Still, it’s good to see an admission at long last that Gresley FC bought their way into the NPL, despite vehemently denying it at the time!


Officiating at Step 4 is abysmal. Step 5 was much better in the midland league in my opinion, there's so much bullying from teams at this level that is frankly embarassing.

As for "buying" the way up, we've always spent money we have to hand from takings, making profits throughout those promotion years. Something learned from Rovers demise and the idiotic monies spent at time was to be sustainable, find our natural level etc. In the EMCL/MFA averaging gates of 400 and with good cup runs, there was money to spend on players, right now we're often outbid from Step 5 teams because we refuse to pay silly money. If it's not there, don't spend it which to me is simple and sustainable. What is holding us back as a club is the infrastructure. The Moat isn't fit any more and until the new ground is addressed (Planning is waiting on a couple of surveys) then it's a case of treading water. Bring in the new ground with 4g facility and the ability to create additional revenues from clubs and functions that we can't now and we can then push on, as it is we can't and won't & if that leads to going down to Step 5 at some point whilst we spend what we have, then so be it.


TomRoystonCrow
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Dec 27, 2017, 6:06 PM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Would Royston Town be transferred to the Isthmian If:

Kings Lynn and Kettering Town both fail to go up

Dunstable Town stay up

3 clubs that are most likely to be promoted to the Midlands Premier (AFC Rushden & Diamonds, AFC Dunstable and Cambridge City from the Southern League East Division

Also what League would you put Gloucester City if they got relegated?


kivo
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Dec 31, 2017, 6:29 PM

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Shouldn't this thread be a sticky now?


leohoenig
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Dec 31, 2017, 10:11 PM

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Re: [kivo] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

There is a sticky, but locked thread to give a link to the maps, but leaving this for the discussion



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andyh
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Jan 1, 2018, 11:43 AM

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Re: [leohoenig] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Apologies if I've missed something on a different thread, but is it confirmed that the NPL Div 1 will be split North & South and not East & West?


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Jan 1, 2018, 11:51 AM

Posts: 10552
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In Reply To
Apologies if I've missed something on a different thread, but is it confirmed that the NPL Div 1 will be split North & South and not East & West?



The F.A. aren’t ruling anything out, but it’ll depend on the distribution of clubs. Personally I doubt it’ll go east & west because of the lack of numbers in the east. For it to be a viable option.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


derekn
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Jan 1, 2018, 12:12 PM

Posts: 2354
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Re: [leohoenig] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

How does the sticky give access to the maps? I can't find any connection to them.


leohoenig
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Jan 1, 2018, 2:19 PM

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The maps are linked from Wazzafan's signature line in the first post



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



derekn
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Jan 1, 2018, 4:39 PM

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Re: [leohoenig] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

But not from the sticky post, surely. I know you can get to it from the first post in this thread, but the sticky thread isn't any use at all.


windydcfc
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Jan 1, 2018, 7:46 PM

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In Reply To
The maps are linked from Wazzafan's signature line in the first post



The issue this season, is that season 2017/18 maps have somehow been overwritten by next season’s projections!



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


Stretch06
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Jan 2, 2018, 9:31 AM

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Just noticed they have kept Chard Town in the step 6 Western league (although the chart is based on current league position). Chard will not meet ground grading again this year due to the famous slope and face automatic relegation.

You could also move both Roman glass and Almondsbury to the hellenic both in close proximity to Thornbury and tyth Rocks. I remember two sides playing at the GFA Hq (Almondsbury town and Winterborne Utd.) both were hellenic league before.

Not quite clued up on the new projections so excuse
Me if I am wrong but will the step 7 sides need a stand, hard standing, floodlights to be promoted? Again into the western league Div 1 Chilcompton don’t have any in place at the moment, nor planning permission.


windydcfc
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Jan 2, 2018, 10:02 AM

Posts: 10552
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In Reply To
Just noticed they have kept Chard Town in the step 6 Western league (although the chart is based on current league position). Chard will not meet ground grading again this year due to the famous slope and face automatic relegation.

You could also move both Roman glass and Almondsbury to the hellenic both in close proximity to Thornbury and tyth Rocks. I remember two sides playing at the GFA Hq (Almondsbury town and Winterborne Utd.) both were hellenic league before.

Not quite clued up on the new projections so excuse
Me if I am wrong but will the step 7 sides need a stand, hard standing, floodlights to be promoted? Again into the western league Div 1 Chilcompton don’t have any in place at the moment, nor planning permission.



Until all the step 6/7 promotion applicants have been released by the F.A. wazzafan promotes the highest placed sides. The F.A. releases the list in the next couple of weeks & the list will look more realistic then.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


Mad Bill
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Jan 2, 2018, 10:07 AM

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Surely, the spreadsheet should show the 3rd place PPGs, not the 4ths?
It is the best 3rd place on PPG that gets the 19th automatic promotion place, isn't it?


boivie
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Jan 2, 2018, 10:56 AM

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In Reply To
Surely, the spreadsheet should show the 3rd place PPGs, not the 4ths?
It is the best 3rd place on PPG that gets the 19th automatic promotion place, isn't it?

I think the the spreadsheet makes a projection for all promotion places, not only the automatic ones.

But yes, one could argue that it would be better to promote the 4th placed team that is in the same division as the 3rd placed with highest PPG.


(This post was edited by boivie on Jan 2, 2018, 10:59 AM)


shotsforme
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Jan 2, 2018, 11:19 AM

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Anyone know how they are going to sort out Promotion & Relegations next season for Step 3 and 4. If two teams are relegated from each of the 4 step 3 leagues making 8, there will be 7 step 4 leagues, so will one runner up with the best PPG get the remaining place?


Mad Bill
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Jan 2, 2018, 11:20 AM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
Surely, the spreadsheet should show the 3rd place PPGs, not the 4ths?
It is the best 3rd place on PPG that gets the 19th automatic promotion place, isn't it?

I think the the spreadsheet makes a projection for all promotion places, not only the automatic ones.

But yes, one could argue that it would be better to promote the 4th placed team that is in the same division as the 3rd placed with highest PPG.


In Step 4 there are 19 promotion places. Each of the 6 divisions has a play-off, filling 6 of those places. The remaining 13 are automatic. Each of the 6 divisions promotes its top 2, 12 in total. Number 13 is the third-placed team with the highest PPG.
The spreadsheet should therefore list the PPG of the 3rd placed teams in the Step 4 divisions (not those in 4th place), as it is the teams in 3rd who are battling for the 13th automatic promotion place.
Or have I completely misunderstood?


boivie
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Jan 2, 2018, 11:43 AM

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In Reply To
In Step 4 there are 19 promotion places. Each of the 6 divisions has a play-off, filling 6 of those places. The remaining 13 are automatic. Each of the 6 divisions promotes its top 2, 12 in total. Number 13 is the third-placed team with the highest PPG.
The spreadsheet should therefore list the PPG of the 3rd placed teams in the Step 4 divisions (not those in 4th place), as it is the teams in 3rd who are battling for the 13th automatic promotion place.
Or have I completely misunderstood?


I don't think you have misunderstood the process for actual promotion. But you might have misunderstood the purpose of the spreadsheet, which is to show a likely composition of each division in the following season. For the purpose of the spreadsheet it's irrelevant if teams are automatically promoted, or by play-off. The important thing is to find 19 teams that are likely to play in step 3 next season. The method the author of the spreadsheet has selected to find those 19 teams is to take the top three teams from each division and one of the fourth placed teams (by PPG).


boivie
Junior Team Sub

Jan 2, 2018, 11:51 AM

Posts: 22
Location: Sweden
Team(s): HV71, Green Bay Packers, Ludwig/Walkenhorst

Post #71 of 744 (7862 views)
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Re: [Mad Bill] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

If you want to see a PPG comparison of the third placed teams there are other resources, for example this one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/...ion_positions_by_ppg


Mad Bill
First Team Star


Jan 2, 2018, 12:28 PM

Posts: 1779
Location: Denton
Team(s): Hyde United FC; Lancashire CCC; Buffalo Bills;

Post #72 of 744 (7812 views)
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Re: [boivie] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I'm specifically referring to cells AA31 - AA38 on the spreadsheet. These refer to Step 4 fourth places, even though the 4th placed teams are not affected by any PPG considerations, which, at Stewp 4, only apply to 3rd places.


boivie
Junior Team Sub

Jan 2, 2018, 1:24 PM

Posts: 22
Location: Sweden
Team(s): HV71, Green Bay Packers, Ludwig/Walkenhorst

Post #73 of 744 (7740 views)
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Re: [Mad Bill] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I'm specifically referring to cells AA31 - AA38 on the spreadsheet. These refer to Step 4 fourth places, even though the 4th placed teams are not affected by any PPG considerations, which, at Stewp 4, only apply to 3rd places.


You are correct in that the 4th placed teams are not affected by any PPG considerations in the real world promotions, because all 4th placed teams are going to play in play-offs.

But for the 2018/19 projections Wazzafan has made in the spreadsheet, he is using PPG in cells AA31 - AA38 to decide which 4th placed team to include in the projections of the 2018/19 step 3 divisions (cells Q3 - AB26).


(This post was edited by boivie on Jan 2, 2018, 1:29 PM)


Mad Bill
First Team Star


Jan 2, 2018, 1:33 PM

Posts: 1779
Location: Denton
Team(s): Hyde United FC; Lancashire CCC; Buffalo Bills;

Post #74 of 744 (7724 views)
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Re: [boivie] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

So he's predicting the play-off winners? In that case, why is only Scarborough Ath highlighted and promoted, rather than one club from each Step 4 division?


(This post was edited by Mad Bill on Jan 2, 2018, 1:48 PM)


boivie
Junior Team Sub

Jan 2, 2018, 3:02 PM

Posts: 22
Location: Sweden
Team(s): HV71, Green Bay Packers, Ludwig/Walkenhorst

Post #75 of 744 (7643 views)
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Re: [Mad Bill] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
So he's predicting the play-off winners? In that case, why is only Scarborough Ath highlighted and promoted, rather than one club from each Step 4 division?

He is predicting that all 3rd placed teams and one 4th placed team will be promoted. And he is using PPG to select the 4th placed team.

In real life it will be the division with the highest ranked 3rd placed team that will have four teams promoted. But to include that would make the spreadsheet more complicated.


(This post was edited by boivie on Jan 2, 2018, 3:04 PM)


Mr. T
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jan 2, 2018, 6:27 PM

Posts: 5383
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Post #76 of 744 (13193 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
The maps are linked from Wazzafan's signature line in the first post


The issue this season, is that season 2017/18 maps have somehow been overwritten by next season’s projections!


2017-18 maps
Step 1: http://goo.gl/X1hoSw
Step 2: http://goo.gl/jwcPDe
Step 3: http://goo.gl/FBjpQG
Step 4: http://goo.gl/ZsDXMm
Step 5: http://goo.gl/24pPdz
Step 6: http://goo.gl/uJmKYP


wazzafan
First Team Sub

Jan 2, 2018, 8:58 PM

Posts: 980
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Post #77 of 744 (13018 views)
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Re: [boivie] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or

Thank you Mad Bill for the questions and Boivie for the answers. Couldn't really have answered the questions proposed any better so I thank boivie again for that.

Mad Bill does make some good points. I may look to edit the PPG table referred to in order to make things clearer. I am currently automatically promoting the 6 clubs currently occupying the 6 3rd places in each step 4 division as the playoff winners. However I could look at distinguishing the league whose 3rd placed side will be automatically promoted better. I'll look into it at my next update.


keneastlancs
Reserve Team Regular

Jan 2, 2018, 9:19 PM

Posts: 568
Location: Darwen Lancashire
Team(s): all non league - especially north western teams

Post #78 of 744 (13000 views)
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Thank you Mad Bill for the questions and Boivie for the answers. Couldn't really have answered the questions proposed any better so I thank boivie again for that.

Mad Bill does make some good points. I may look to edit the PPG table referred to in order to make things clearer. I am currently automatically promoting the 6 clubs currently occupying the 6 3rd places in each step 4 division as the playoff winners. However I could look at distinguishing the league whose 3rd placed side will be automatically promoted better. I'll look into it at my next update.

could these ppg tables be put in ppg order to make it easier to see who is close to dropping in and out of the 12 etc? as at the moment coleshill are the lowest ranked of the 12 qualifiers but sit 4th in the way you present it.


boivie
Junior Team Sub

Jan 3, 2018, 7:21 AM

Posts: 22
Location: Sweden
Team(s): HV71, Green Bay Packers, Ludwig/Walkenhorst

Post #79 of 744 (12764 views)
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Re: [keneastlancs] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
could these ppg tables be put in ppg order to make it easier to see who is close to dropping in and out of the 12 etc? as at the moment coleshill are the lowest ranked of the 12 qualifiers but sit 4th in the way you present it.

You might want to look at this page instead:
https://en.wikipedia.org/...ion_positions_by_ppg
It has the teams sorted, and includes more information.


keneastlancs
Reserve Team Regular

Jan 3, 2018, 9:09 AM

Posts: 568
Location: Darwen Lancashire
Team(s): all non league - especially north western teams

Post #80 of 744 (12719 views)
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Re: [boivie] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
could these ppg tables be put in ppg order to make it easier to see who is close to dropping in and out of the 12 etc? as at the moment coleshill are the lowest ranked of the 12 qualifiers but sit 4th in the way you present it.

You might want to look at this page instead:
https://en.wikipedia.org/...ion_positions_by_ppg yes I have seen that just thought you might want to do similar on your excellent spreadsheet
It has the teams sorted, and includes more information.



DarkSithLord
Reserve Team Regular

Jan 23, 2018, 10:43 AM

Posts: 581
Location: Derbyshire
Team(s): Alfreton Town

Post #81 of 744 (11254 views)
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Re: [Mr. T] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

At the moment what league would Alfreton join if they got relegated from Conference North



"the force is strong with this one"


Richard Rundle
Man City Transfer Target!

Jan 23, 2018, 10:46 AM

Posts: 8469
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Post #82 of 744 (11250 views)
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Re: [DarkSithLord] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
At the moment what league would Alfreton join if they got relegated from Conference North


Northern Premier League I presume.


DarkSithLord
Reserve Team Regular

Jan 23, 2018, 1:31 PM

Posts: 581
Location: Derbyshire
Team(s): Alfreton Town

Post #83 of 744 (11102 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

So would I but not this new Central League then?



"the force is strong with this one"


Richard Rundle
Man City Transfer Target!

Jan 23, 2018, 1:40 PM

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Post #84 of 744 (11089 views)
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Re: [DarkSithLord] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
So would I but not this new Central League then?


There isn't going to be a new Central League, merely a new division of the Southern League


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Jan 23, 2018, 1:44 PM

Posts: 10552
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #85 of 744 (11076 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
So would I but not this new Central League then?


There isn't going to be a new Central League, merely a new division of the Southern League



Only run by the Southern League for a couple of years. The Midlands league at step 3 will cover a more northerly footprint than the new step 4 league.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


gresleyfcfan
Reserve Team Sub

Jan 23, 2018, 6:05 PM

Posts: 511
Location: South Derbyshire
Team(s): Gresley FC

Post #86 of 744 (10871 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I keep looking at Step 4 and seeing a better solution (should we lose Romulus) of bringing Coleshill, Bromsgrove, SCT & Bedworth into NPL and losing Corby, Spalding, Stamford & Holbeach. With the addition of Colwyn Bay it would look a better option to me personally...


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Jan 23, 2018, 7:05 PM

Posts: 10552
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #87 of 744 (10815 views)
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Re: [gresleyfcfan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I keep looking at Step 4 and seeing a better solution (should we lose Romulus) of bringing Coleshill, Bromsgrove, SCT & Bedworth into NPL and losing Corby, Spalding, Stamford & Holbeach. With the addition of Colwyn Bay it would look a better option to me personally...



I mentioned this a few weeks ago & it does make more sense.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Jan 24, 2018, 2:35 PM

Posts: 10552
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #88 of 744 (10258 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Stone OA have applied for a lateral transfer to the NWCL1S. I believe there are a couple of other clubs that have also applied. Any clubs that want to be laterally transferred, have to do so before the 31st March.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


Sarumio
Man City Transfer Target!

Jan 24, 2018, 2:49 PM

Posts: 6329
Location: Ilminster
Team(s): Salisbury

Post #89 of 744 (10252 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Stone OA have applied for a lateral transfer to the NWCL1S. I believe there are a couple of other clubs that have also applied. Any clubs that want to be laterally transferred, have to do so before the 31st March.


All well and good with this new Step 6 division being brought in.

BUT you will still end up with Stone OA v Cleator Moor Celtic at Step 5 should both be promoted.

Stone is simply not in the North West!


yorkieexile
First Team Star

Jan 24, 2018, 2:58 PM

Posts: 2738
Location: Barwell
Team(s): Halifax, Groundhopper

Post #90 of 744 (10239 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

If Stone OA have applied for a lateral transfer to the NWCL, I imagine they have done that for a reason.

Perhaps they should have asked for your advice before they did so?


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Jan 24, 2018, 3:08 PM

Posts: 10552
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #91 of 744 (10223 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Stone OA have applied for a lateral transfer to the NWCL1S. I believe there are a couple of other clubs that have also applied. Any clubs that want to be laterally transferred, have to do so before the 31st March.


All well and good with this new Step 6 division being brought in.

BUT you will still end up with Stone OA v Cleator Moor Celtic at Step 5 should both be promoted.

Stone is simply not in the North West!



Will the Cumbrian clubs, definitely end up in the NWCL Prem?
Maybe they fancy being in the same league as Eastwood Hanley & Sone Diminoes?



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Jan 24, 2018, 3:10 PM)


Sarumio
Man City Transfer Target!

Jan 24, 2018, 4:18 PM

Posts: 6329
Location: Ilminster
Team(s): Salisbury

Post #92 of 744 (10144 views)
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Re: [yorkieexile] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
If Stone OA have applied for a lateral transfer to the NWCL, I imagine they have done that for a reason.

Perhaps they should have asked for your advice before they did so?


Perhaps you could try being less sarcastic and rude.


markust
Youth Team Star

Jan 24, 2018, 7:15 PM

Posts: 286
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Post #93 of 744 (9969 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Stone is simply not in the North West!


The other Stone club were long time members of the NWC until they had ground issues.

I think the whole thing is the footprint size of the league is huge. On the west of the country the NWC covers the same area as both the Northern League and NCEFL put together does for the East. I can see a North/South split in the premier at some point in the future.


leohoenig
Administrator

Jan 25, 2018, 3:51 AM

Posts: 13657
Location: Outer Cheltenhamshire
Team(s): Cheltenham Town

Post #94 of 744 (9625 views)
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Re: [markust] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

If those on here that have long asked for 1-2-4-8-16 were to get their way, then the I would have thought the best extra Step 5 leagues would be to split North West Counties in North/South, "Cheshire County and Lancs Combination", and the give the East Midlands League a Step 5 division

I am of the view this is a sensible plan, but needs to be aided by a reduction of ground standards to prevent bottle necks where no teams can get promoted because they cannot get the facilites for the next step up



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



wazzafan
First Team Sub

Feb 12, 2018, 8:11 AM

Posts: 980
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Post #95 of 744 (7938 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or

All updated from the weekend.

I'll leave the Ossett merger until it's absolutely confirmed and a new name has been announced.

I've tried to enhance the clubs who failed the G grade last season. Those clubs are the ones in danger of being demoted. They do include the teams who were promoted last season as well. They are in red writing.

I've given up on the 'what the FA would do' mantra and gone for how i'd do it as well. Too good an opportunity this year not too.


007Dale
First Team Star

Feb 12, 2018, 8:23 AM

Posts: 1826
Location:
Team(s): St Albans City, Leicester City

Post #96 of 744 (7931 views)
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Thanks - very interesting.

Why have all of the Leicestershire sides been shifted around at step 6 - is the EM Counties footprint shifting northwards?


shimtoan
First Team Regular


Feb 12, 2018, 8:38 AM

Posts: 1379
Location: Dunkirk, Nottingham
Team(s): Dunkirk

Post #97 of 744 (7920 views)
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Re: [007Dale] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Thanks - very interesting.

Why have all of the Leicestershire sides been shifted around at step 6 - is the EM Counties footprint shifting northwards?

it's been mentioned that the Leicestershire EMCL clubs will be moved to the UCL.

now it's my bit

That'd probably be to replace the clubs leaving the UCL1 for the SSM1.

Some of the SSM1 clubs would be moving to the Eastern Senior League since no clubs in Essex want to



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Feb 12, 2018, 9:44 AM

Posts: 10552
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #98 of 744 (7870 views)
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Re: [shimtoan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Thanks - very interesting.

Why have all of the Leicestershire sides been shifted around at step 6 - is the EM Counties footprint shifting northwards?

it's been mentioned that the Leicestershire EMCL clubs will be moved to the UCL.

now it's my bit

That'd probably be to replace the clubs leaving the UCL1 for the SSM1.

Some of the SSM1 clubs would be moving to the Eastern Senior League since no clubs in Essex want to



I had a long conversation with a very senior ECL committee member & they’ve told me that the F.A. won’t be shifting a load of SSML teams over to the new ESL1. Well, not for next season anyway! Personally I think the UCL will look dramatically different in a few seasons, after the two new step 5 leagues are created. But I’m not convinced that it’ll be too dramatic this season.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


shimtoan
First Team Regular


Feb 12, 2018, 11:12 AM

Posts: 1379
Location: Dunkirk, Nottingham
Team(s): Dunkirk

Post #99 of 744 (7776 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Thanks - very interesting.

Why have all of the Leicestershire sides been shifted around at step 6 - is the EM Counties footprint shifting northwards?

it's been mentioned that the Leicestershire EMCL clubs will be moved to the UCL.

now it's my bit

That'd probably be to replace the clubs leaving the UCL1 for the SSM1.

Some of the SSM1 clubs would be moving to the Eastern Senior League since no clubs in Essex want to



I had a long conversation with a very senior ECL committee member & they’ve told me that the F.A. won’t be shifting a load of SSML teams over to the new ESL1. Well, not for next season anyway! Personally I think the UCL will look dramatically different in a few seasons, after the two new step 5 leagues are created. But I’m not convinced that it’ll be too dramatic this season.

But if there's been a lack of applicants to ESL1, where will they make the numbers up from if not neighbouring leagues?

I suppose we'll find out in July



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation


Mister TwoU
First Team Star


Feb 12, 2018, 11:55 AM

Posts: 2498
Location: Back in hilly Malvern.
Team(s): Malvern Town FC

Post #100 of 744 (7723 views)
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Don't think Lingfield will be celebrating their promotion, Richard!



Professional cretin.


Mister TwoU
First Team Star


Feb 12, 2018, 11:59 AM

Posts: 2498
Location: Back in hilly Malvern.
Team(s): Malvern Town FC

Post #101 of 744 (7913 views)
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Re: [shimtoan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
But if there's been a lack of applicants to ESL1, where will they make the numbers up from if not neighbouring leagues?

I suppose we'll find out in July


Were there not 'five EOL clubs' & 'a number of non-Step 7 clubs' being interested ~ in a post from a few weeks ago?



Professional cretin.


Mister TwoU
First Team Star


Feb 12, 2018, 12:06 PM

Posts: 2498
Location: Back in hilly Malvern.
Team(s): Malvern Town FC

Post #102 of 744 (7909 views)
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

If you reprieve four more Step 6 clubs (one each from WMRP, Mid1, EMCL & UCL1) with a few more lateral transfers, you'd fill both NWC1s to 20-each.

Surely an improved model!



Professional cretin.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Feb 12, 2018, 1:23 PM

Posts: 10552
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #103 of 744 (7851 views)
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Re: [shimtoan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Thanks - very interesting.

Why have all of the Leicestershire sides been shifted around at step 6 - is the EM Counties footprint shifting northwards?

it's been mentioned that the Leicestershire EMCL clubs will be moved to the UCL.

now it's my bit

That'd probably be to replace the clubs leaving the UCL1 for the SSM1.

Some of the SSM1 clubs would be moving to the Eastern Senior League since no clubs in Essex want to



I had a long conversation with a very senior ECL committee member & they’ve told me that the F.A. won’t be shifting a load of SSML teams over to the new ESL1. Well, not for next season anyway! Personally I think the UCL will look dramatically different in a few seasons, after the two new step 5 leagues are created. But I’m not convinced that it’ll be too dramatic this season.

But if there's been a lack of applicants to ESL1, where will they make the numbers up from if not neighbouring leagues?

I suppose we'll find out in July



I’ve been told that the ESL1N & ESL1S will have at least 16 clubs in each division. This will be either existing sides from the ESL, ECL & step 7 or below. They aren’t looking at laterally transferring sides from other step 6 leagues.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


borninchesham
Youth Team Star

Feb 12, 2018, 4:49 PM

Posts: 273
Location: Ipswich
Team(s): Queens Park Rangers & Chesham United

Post #104 of 744 (7683 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Deleted as I made a bit of an errior!


(This post was edited by borninchesham on Feb 12, 2018, 4:52 PM)


keneastlancs
Reserve Team Regular

Feb 12, 2018, 8:01 PM

Posts: 568
Location: Darwen Lancashire
Team(s): all non league - especially north western teams

Post #105 of 744 (7501 views)
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
All updated from the weekend.

I'll leave the Ossett merger until it's absolutely confirmed and a new name has been announced.

I've tried to enhance the clubs who failed the G grade last season. Those clubs are the ones in danger of being demoted. They do include the teams who were promoted last season as well. They are in red writing.

I've given up on the 'what the FA would do' mantra and gone for how i'd do it as well. Too good an opportunity this year not too.

in the nwcl you have not included shelley and steeton who both are supposed to be available for promotion to that set up. Also I have heard that Staffordshire league will be willing to promote a 2nd team and both Cheshire and west lancs a 3rd team as a one off only so with these in mind that would increase both nwcl to 20 teams (with a relegate) so perhaps stone dominoes, rylands and Whitehaven could be added to your leagues.


keneastlancs
Reserve Team Regular

Feb 12, 2018, 8:01 PM

Posts: 568
Location: Darwen Lancashire
Team(s): all non league - especially north western teams

Post #106 of 744 (7501 views)
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All updated from the weekend.

I'll leave the Ossett merger until it's absolutely confirmed and a new name has been announced.

I've tried to enhance the clubs who failed the G grade last season. Those clubs are the ones in danger of being demoted. They do include the teams who were promoted last season as well. They are in red writing.

I've given up on the 'what the FA would do' mantra and gone for how i'd do it as well. Too good an opportunity this year not too.

in the nwcl you have not included shelley and steeton who both are supposed to be available for promotion to that set up. Also I have heard that Staffordshire league will be willing to promote a 2nd team and both Cheshire and west lancs a 3rd team as a one off only so with these in mind that would increase both nwcl to 20 teams (with a relegate) so perhaps stone dominoes, rylands and Whitehaven could be added to your leagues.


wazzafan
First Team Sub

Feb 12, 2018, 8:15 PM

Posts: 980
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Post #107 of 744 (7486 views)
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I was basing my allocations on the clubs who currently occupy a top 5 place. But I do recall this being put aside for this season. I'll have a play around with it again. Personally, I'm not keen on teams the other side of the pennines being in the NWCFL.


keneastlancs
Reserve Team Regular

Feb 12, 2018, 8:17 PM

Posts: 568
Location: Darwen Lancashire
Team(s): all non league - especially north western teams

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I was basing my allocations on the clubs who currently occupy a top 5 place. But I do recall this being put aside for this season. I'll have a play around with it again. Personally, I'm not keen on teams the other side of the pennines being in the NWCFL.

no me neither but silsden are already there. Wernt campion supposed to be moved in also and fc Oswestry a possible move out?


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Feb 13, 2018, 12:18 AM

Posts: 10552
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #109 of 744 (7260 views)
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I was basing my allocations on the clubs who currently occupy a top 5 place. But I do recall this being put aside for this season. I'll have a play around with it again. Personally, I'm not keen on teams the other side of the pennines being in the NWCFL.



On the Counties Podcast they mentioned Eccleshill & Campion as potential NWCL. The F.A. aren’t going to promote teams outside the top 5, unless they’re heading into the NWCL or ESL! So I reckon Campion, Eccleshill, Steeton & Shelley will all be playing in the NWCL1N next season. I also heard that a few of the step 7 leagues are prepared to promote 3 clubs. I already know that it’s almost certain that 2 will be promoted from those step 7 leagues.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


markust
Youth Team Star

Feb 15, 2018, 11:00 AM

Posts: 286
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Post #110 of 744 (6291 views)
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I also heard that a few of the step 7 leagues are prepared to promote 3 clubs. I already know that it’s almost certain that 2 will be promoted from those step 7 leagues.


The Cheshire League have already said they will promote as many as the FA allow. They want to be seen as a league developing clubs for progression up the pyramid.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Feb 15, 2018, 1:48 PM

Posts: 10552
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #111 of 744 (6164 views)
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Re: [markust] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The F.A. will let the ECL know which clubs they’re going to have for the new ESL1’s after the 31st March. At the moment they’re hoping to start with 18 clubs in each league. At the moment the ECL don’t expect to receive any clubs from the SSML. The ECL have been told by the F.A. that they have control of these leagues & can determine which clubs go each division. The ECL will release a list of those clubs, after the 31st March.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


TrevorT
Youth Team Regular

Feb 15, 2018, 1:54 PM

Posts: 255
Location: Essex
Team(s):

Post #112 of 744 (6155 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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The F.A. will let the ECL know which clubs they’re going to have for the new ESL1’s after the 31st March. At the moment they’re hoping to start with 18 clubs in each league. At the moment the ECL don’t expect to receive any clubs from the SSML. The ECL have been told by the F.A. that they have control of these leagues & can determine which clubs go each division. The ECL will release a list of those clubs, after the 31st March.


Sorry Windy..when you say The ECL have been told by the F.A. that they have control of these leagues & can determine which clubs go each division, do you mean the ECL have control or the FA have control?


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Feb 15, 2018, 2:12 PM

Posts: 10552
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #113 of 744 (6134 views)
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In Reply To
The F.A. will let the ECL know which clubs they’re going to have for the new ESL1’s after the 31st March. At the moment they’re hoping to start with 18 clubs in each league. At the moment the ECL don’t expect to receive any clubs from the SSML. The ECL have been told by the F.A. that they have control of these leagues & can determine which clubs go each division. The ECL will release a list of those clubs, after the 31st March.


Sorry Windy..when you say The ECL have been told by the F.A. that they have control of these leagues & can determine which clubs go each division, do you mean the ECL have control or the FA have control?



The F.A. will control which clubs will be cherry picked from the feeder leagues. Then it’s up to the ECL, which clubs will be placed in either the ESL1N or the ESL1S.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


Sarumio
Man City Transfer Target!

Feb 15, 2018, 2:24 PM

Posts: 6329
Location: Ilminster
Team(s): Salisbury

Post #114 of 744 (6122 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
The F.A. will let the ECL know which clubs they’re going to have for the new ESL1’s after the 31st March. At the moment they’re hoping to start with 18 clubs in each league. At the moment the ECL don’t expect to receive any clubs from the SSML. The ECL have been told by the F.A. that they have control of these leagues & can determine which clubs go each division. The ECL will release a list of those clubs, after the 31st March.


Sorry Windy..when you say The ECL have been told by the F.A. that they have control of these leagues & can determine which clubs go each division, do you mean the ECL have control or the FA have control?



The F.A. will control which clubs will be cherry picked from the feeder leagues. Then it’s up to the ECL, which clubs will be placed in either the ESL1N or the ESL1S.


Why can the FA not release a list now - why is the information on this area of the country such top secret stuff? The applicants from the rest of the country have been released


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Feb 15, 2018, 2:38 PM

Posts: 10552
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #115 of 744 (6112 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
The F.A. will let the ECL know which clubs they’re going to have for the new ESL1’s after the 31st March. At the moment they’re hoping to start with 18 clubs in each league. At the moment the ECL don’t expect to receive any clubs from the SSML. The ECL have been told by the F.A. that they have control of these leagues & can determine which clubs go each division. The ECL will release a list of those clubs, after the 31st March.


Sorry Windy..when you say The ECL have been told by the F.A. that they have control of these leagues & can determine which clubs go each division, do you mean the ECL have control or the FA have control?



The F.A. will control which clubs will be cherry picked from the feeder leagues. Then it’s up to the ECL, which clubs will be placed in either the ESL1N or the ESL1S.


Why can the FA not release a list now - why is the information on this area of the country such top secret stuff? The applicants from the rest of the country have been released



Certain clubs have already passed the grading & gone forward. Certain clubs have failed & obviously won’t. Certain clubs have requirements to do to there grounds & the F.A. has contacted each individual club & asked them if they’re going to complete these requirements(I believe those clubs will be given a timescale to achieve this. Very similar to what happened in Kent). Then each club that gets passed this will be asked if they’ll accept promotion. Then when the F.A. has a complete list they’ll release it to the ECL on the 31st March. Then it’s in the ECL hands to deal with. As for the final constitution & we’ll have to wait for which clubs are promoted or relegated from step 5/6. Then the F.A. can decide whether there’s any need for lateral transfers.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


Sarumio
Man City Transfer Target!

Feb 15, 2018, 2:57 PM

Posts: 6329
Location: Ilminster
Team(s): Salisbury

Post #116 of 744 (6095 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
The F.A. will let the ECL know which clubs they’re going to have for the new ESL1’s after the 31st March. At the moment they’re hoping to start with 18 clubs in each league. At the moment the ECL don’t expect to receive any clubs from the SSML. The ECL have been told by the F.A. that they have control of these leagues & can determine which clubs go each division. The ECL will release a list of those clubs, after the 31st March.


Sorry Windy..when you say The ECL have been told by the F.A. that they have control of these leagues & can determine which clubs go each division, do you mean the ECL have control or the FA have control?



The F.A. will control which clubs will be cherry picked from the feeder leagues. Then it’s up to the ECL, which clubs will be placed in either the ESL1N or the ESL1S.


Why can the FA not release a list now - why is the information on this area of the country such top secret stuff? The applicants from the rest of the country have been released



Certain clubs have already passed the grading & gone forward. Certain clubs have failed & obviously won’t. Certain clubs have requirements to do to there grounds & the F.A. has contacted each individual club & asked them if they’re going to complete these requirements(I believe those clubs will be given a timescale to achieve this. Very similar to what happened in Kent). Then each club that gets passed this will be asked if they’ll accept promotion. Then when the F.A. has a complete list they’ll release it to the ECL on the 31st March. Then it’s in the ECL hands to deal with. As for the final constitution & we’ll have to wait for which clubs are promoted or relegated from step 5/6. Then the F.A. can decide whether there’s any need for lateral transfers.


So, virtually nod difference to the process that the rest of the country's clubs go through, i.e. they apply, tey then see if they can get their ground up to scratch, they make the improvements and all the while they can refuse to accept promotion at any stage up to when the fat lady sings at the AGM.

So unless I am missing something, I'll ask again

Why can the list of applicants not be released???

Applicants....not clubs signing on the dotted line for promotion...just the applicants.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Feb 15, 2018, 3:09 PM

Posts: 10552
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #117 of 744 (6084 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
The F.A. will let the ECL know which clubs they’re going to have for the new ESL1’s after the 31st March. At the moment they’re hoping to start with 18 clubs in each league. At the moment the ECL don’t expect to receive any clubs from the SSML. The ECL have been told by the F.A. that they have control of these leagues & can determine which clubs go each division. The ECL will release a list of those clubs, after the 31st March.


Sorry Windy..when you say The ECL have been told by the F.A. that they have control of these leagues & can determine which clubs go each division, do you mean the ECL have control or the FA have control?



The F.A. will control which clubs will be cherry picked from the feeder leagues. Then it’s up to the ECL, which clubs will be placed in either the ESL1N or the ESL1S.


Why can the FA not release a list now - why is the information on this area of the country such top secret stuff? The applicants from the rest of the country have been released



Certain clubs have already passed the grading & gone forward. Certain clubs have failed & obviously won’t. Certain clubs have requirements to do to there grounds & the F.A. has contacted each individual club & asked them if they’re going to complete these requirements(I believe those clubs will be given a timescale to achieve this. Very similar to what happened in Kent). Then each club that gets passed this will be asked if they’ll accept promotion. Then when the F.A. has a complete list they’ll release it to the ECL on the 31st March. Then it’s in the ECL hands to deal with. As for the final constitution & we’ll have to wait for which clubs are promoted or relegated from step 5/6. Then the F.A. can decide whether there’s any need for lateral transfers.


So, virtually nod difference to the process that the rest of the country's clubs go through, i.e. they apply, tey then see if they can get their ground up to scratch, they make the improvements and all the while they can refuse to accept promotion at any stage up to when the fat lady sings at the AGM.

So unless I am missing something, I'll ask again

Why can the list of applicants not be released???

Applicants....not clubs signing on the dotted line for promotion...just the applicants.



Because they’re being cherry picked & some clubs will be from the nominal step 8. The whole process is different & until they have a list of which clubs are going to start in these leagues. The F.A. won’t release the list. Apart from the EOL, I pretty much know which clubs have applied. But I have no idea which clubs will make the final list!



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


TrevorT
Youth Team Regular

Feb 15, 2018, 3:52 PM

Posts: 255
Location: Essex
Team(s):

Post #118 of 744 (6043 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To

In Reply To
The F.A. will let the ECL know which clubs they’re going to have for the new ESL1’s after the 31st March. At the moment they’re hoping to start with 18 clubs in each league. At the moment the ECL don’t expect to receive any clubs from the SSML. The ECL have been told by the F.A. that they have control of these leagues & can determine which clubs go each division. The ECL will release a list of those clubs, after the 31st March.


Sorry Windy..when you say The ECL have been told by the F.A. that they have control of these leagues & can determine which clubs go each division, do you mean the ECL have control or the FA have control?



The F.A. will control which clubs will be cherry picked from the feeder leagues. Then it’s up to the ECL, which clubs will be placed in either the ESL1N or the ESL1S.


Thanks for that. I thought that the Eastern Senior League was going to be a standalone Step 6 League albeit jointly administered by the ECL and the Essex Senior League. Is that still the case?


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Feb 15, 2018, 4:16 PM

Posts: 10552
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #119 of 744 (6021 views)
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Re: [TrevorT] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
The F.A. will let the ECL know which clubs they’re going to have for the new ESL1’s after the 31st March. At the moment they’re hoping to start with 18 clubs in each league. At the moment the ECL don’t expect to receive any clubs from the SSML. The ECL have been told by the F.A. that they have control of these leagues & can determine which clubs go each division. The ECL will release a list of those clubs, after the 31st March.


Sorry Windy..when you say The ECL have been told by the F.A. that they have control of these leagues & can determine which clubs go each division, do you mean the ECL have control or the FA have control?



The F.A. will control which clubs will be cherry picked from the feeder leagues. Then it’s up to the ECL, which clubs will be placed in either the ESL1N or the ESL1S.


Thanks for that. I thought that the Eastern Senior League was going to be a standalone Step 6 League albeit jointly administered by the ECL and the Essex Senior League. Is that still the case?



The ECL will run both step 6 leagues & there are ESL members on the board.
I believe I have 6 of the 7 EOL applicants: Frenford, White Ensign, May & Baker, Newbury Forrest, Benfleet & Rayleigh Town.
There’s 3 categories, which I mentioned earlier! Failed, passed & maybes! Only the those in the first two categories know there fate.
*Frenford have passed



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Feb 15, 2018, 4:27 PM)


Herb Alpert
First Team Sub

Feb 15, 2018, 4:30 PM

Posts: 1020
Location: Romford
Team(s): Leyton Orient, whoever is playing w*** h**

Post #120 of 744 (6003 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The ECL will run both step 6 leagues & there are ESL members on the board.
I believe I have 6 of the 7 EOL applicants: Frenford, White Ensign, May & Baker, Newbury Forrest, Benfleet & Rayleigh Town.
There’s 3 categories, which I mentioned earlier! Failed, passed & maybes! Only the those in the first two categories know there fate.


I had heard runours about 4 EOL clubs applying: May & Baker EC, White Ensign, Benfleet & Catho;ic United. The first 3 should be OK, not sure if Catholic United can be compliant without moving. Of the additional teams on your list Newbury Forest groundshare with Redbrisge so should be OK, Frenford and Rayleigh would have plenty of work to do. Would think that Council planning would be the only concern with Frenford. No idea what the situation is at Rayleigh.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Feb 15, 2018, 4:38 PM

Posts: 10552
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #121 of 744 (5998 views)
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Re: [Herb Alpert] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The ECL will run both step 6 leagues & there are ESL members on the board.
I believe I have 6 of the 7 EOL applicants: Frenford, White Ensign, May & Baker, Newbury Forest, Benfleet & Rayleigh Town.
There’s 3 categories, which I mentioned earlier! Failed, passed & maybes! Only the those in the first two categories know there fate.


I had heard runours about 4 EOL clubs applying: May & Baker EC, White Ensign, Benfleet & Catho;ic United. The first 3 should be OK, not sure if Catholic United can be compliant without moving. Of the additional teams on your list Newbury Forest groundshare with Redbrisge so should be OK, Frenford and Rayleigh would have plenty of work to do. Would think that Council planning would be the only concern with Frenford. No idea what the situation is at Rayleigh.



I think I now know the 7th team & that is Southend Sports. Catholic United didn’t apply in the end!



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Feb 15, 2018, 5:04 PM)


Herb Alpert
First Team Sub

Feb 15, 2018, 4:46 PM

Posts: 1020
Location: Romford
Team(s): Leyton Orient, whoever is playing w*** h**

Post #122 of 744 (5985 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
The ECL will run both step 6 leagues & there are ESL members on the board.
I believe I have 6 of the 7 EOL applicants: Frenford, White Ensign, May & Baker, Newbury Forrest, Benfleet & Rayleigh Town.
There’s 3 categories, which I mentioned earlier! Failed, passed & maybes! Only the those in the first two categories know there fate.


I had heard runours about 4 EOL clubs applying: May & Baker EC, White Ensign, Benfleet & Catho;ic United. The first 3 should be OK, not sure if Catholic United can be compliant without moving. Of the additional teams on your list Newbury Forest groundshare with Redbrisge so should be OK, Frenford and Rayleigh would have plenty of work to do. Would think that Council planning would be the only concern with Frenford. No idea what the situation is at Rayleigh.



I think I now know the 7th team & that is Southend Sports


Southend Sports? Not doubting your sources, but that is so far out of left field that I would not have considered them. Not been to their ground/complex so I cannot say what their prospects are.


Sarumio
Man City Transfer Target!

Feb 15, 2018, 4:59 PM

Posts: 6329
Location: Ilminster
Team(s): Salisbury

Post #123 of 744 (5966 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
The ECL will run both step 6 leagues & there are ESL members on the board.
I believe I have 6 of the 7 EOL applicants: Frenford, White Ensign, May & Baker, Newbury Forrest, Benfleet & Rayleigh Town.
There’s 3 categories, which I mentioned earlier! Failed, passed & maybes! Only the those in the first two categories know there fate.


I had heard runours about 4 EOL clubs applying: May & Baker EC, White Ensign, Benfleet & Catho;ic United. The first 3 should be OK, not sure if Catholic United can be compliant without moving. Of the additional teams on your list Newbury Forest groundshare with Redbrisge so should be OK, Frenford and Rayleigh would have plenty of work to do. Would think that Council planning would be the only concern with Frenford. No idea what the situation is at Rayleigh.



I think I now know the 7th team & that is Southend Sports


What do you mean Frenford have passed? Passed what?

What do Frenford and the rest need in order to go up - some grass and that's it? Last time I hecked Frenford and most other EOL grounds were VERY basic?

As for the Southend Sports mention - Division Four of the EOL The FIFTH tier!!!

What's the sodding point in this exercise?


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Feb 15, 2018, 5:12 PM

Posts: 10552
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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The ECL will run both step 6 leagues & there are ESL members on the board.
I believe I have 6 of the 7 EOL applicants: Frenford, White Ensign, May & Baker, Newbury Forrest, Benfleet & Rayleigh Town.
There’s 3 categories, which I mentioned earlier! Failed, passed & maybes! Only the those in the first two categories know there fate.


I had heard runours about 4 EOL clubs applying: May & Baker EC, White Ensign, Benfleet & Catho;ic United. The first 3 should be OK, not sure if Catholic United can be compliant without moving. Of the additional teams on your list Newbury Forest groundshare with Redbrisge so should be OK, Frenford and Rayleigh would have plenty of work to do. Would think that Council planning would be the only concern with Frenford. No idea what the situation is at Rayleigh.



I think I now know the 7th team & that is Southend Sports


What do you mean Frenford have passed? Passed what?

What do Frenford and the rest need in order to go up - some grass and that's it? Last time I hecked Frenford and most other EOL grounds were VERY basic?

As for the Southend Sports mention - Division Four of the EOL The FIFTH tier!!!

What's the sodding point in this exercise?



I was told that about 4 or 5 would end up being promoted. So if someone knows the league, then they’ll know which clubs have the facilities & which don’t. As for passing the grading, the club last have a year to achieve certain things & 3 years for other things. Exactly the same as what happened in Kent.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Feb 15, 2018, 5:21 PM

Posts: 3889
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Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football

Post #125 of 744 (5939 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To

In Reply To
The ECL will run both step 6 leagues & there are ESL members on the board.
I believe I have 6 of the 7 EOL applicants: Frenford, White Ensign, May & Baker, Newbury Forrest, Benfleet & Rayleigh Town.
There’s 3 categories, which I mentioned earlier! Failed, passed & maybes! Only the those in the first two categories know there fate.


I had heard runours about 4 EOL clubs applying: May & Baker EC, White Ensign, Benfleet & Catho;ic United. The first 3 should be OK, not sure if Catholic United can be compliant without moving. Of the additional teams on your list Newbury Forest groundshare with Redbrisge so should be OK, Frenford and Rayleigh would have plenty of work to do. Would think that Council planning would be the only concern with Frenford. No idea what the situation is at Rayleigh.



I think I now know the 7th team & that is Southend Sports


What do you mean Frenford have passed? Passed what?

What do Frenford and the rest need in order to go up - some grass and that's it? Last time I hecked Frenford and most other EOL grounds were VERY basic?

As for the Southend Sports mention - Division Four of the EOL The FIFTH tier!!!

What's the sodding point in this exercise?



I was told that about 4 or 5 would end up being promoted. So if someone knows the league, then they’ll know which clubs have the facilities & which don’t. As for passing the grading, the club last have a year to achieve certain things & 3 years for other things. Exactly the same as what happened in Kent.


Except that the four years grace that was granted is now in its seventh year.


Herb Alpert
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Feb 15, 2018, 5:27 PM

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Post #126 of 744 (10161 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Never said that Frenford have passed. They have plenty to do, but I expect that they could do what they need to do if they got planning permission. Well run club.


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Feb 15, 2018, 5:38 PM

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Re: [Herb Alpert] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Wrong person.
I know nothing at all about Frenford.


Herb Alpert
First Team Sub

Feb 15, 2018, 5:49 PM

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Re: [Unicorn] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Sorry, replied to the wrong post.


Sarumio
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Feb 15, 2018, 6:15 PM

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Post #129 of 744 (10107 views)
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Never said that Frenford have passed. They have plenty to do, but I expect that they could do what they need to do if they got planning permission. Well run club.


Windy said that "Frenford have passed" in Post 119.


Herb Alpert
First Team Sub

Feb 15, 2018, 6:26 PM

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Never said that Frenford have passed. They have plenty to do, but I expect that they could do what they need to do if they got planning permission. Well run club.


Windy said that "Frenford have passed" in Post 119.


Went past their ground 3 months ago and they were a long way from having a suitable ground. Floodlights, hard standing, enclosed ground and turnstiles all needed. Not sure how long EOL clubs have to get their facilities upto standard, but given what Frenford have already done on the site I think they could do what is required if they so wish. The only problem I forsee is getting permission for floodlights.


Sarumio
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Feb 15, 2018, 6:26 PM

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The ECL will run both step 6 leagues & there are ESL members on the board.
I believe I have 6 of the 7 EOL applicants: Frenford, White Ensign, May & Baker, Newbury Forrest, Benfleet & Rayleigh Town.
There’s 3 categories, which I mentioned earlier! Failed, passed & maybes! Only the those in the first two categories know there fate.


I had heard runours about 4 EOL clubs applying: May & Baker EC, White Ensign, Benfleet & Catho;ic United. The first 3 should be OK, not sure if Catholic United can be compliant without moving. Of the additional teams on your list Newbury Forest groundshare with Redbrisge so should be OK, Frenford and Rayleigh would have plenty of work to do. Would think that Council planning would be the only concern with Frenford. No idea what the situation is at Rayleigh.



I think I now know the 7th team & that is Southend Sports


What do you mean Frenford have passed? Passed what?

What do Frenford and the rest need in order to go up - some grass and that's it? Last time I hecked Frenford and most other EOL grounds were VERY basic?

As for the Southend Sports mention - Division Four of the EOL The FIFTH tier!!!

What's the sodding point in this exercise?



I was told that about 4 or 5 would end up being promoted. So if someone knows the league, then they’ll know which clubs have the facilities & which don’t. As for passing the grading, the club last have a year to achieve certain things & 3 years for other things. Exactly the same as what happened in Kent.


Ok lets talk about Southend Sports, or even Rayleigh Town for that matter.

What is the point in this ridiculous unnecessary league if it is to include clubs that are playing FIVE steps below Step 6 at present (Southend Sports) or clubs that can't even stay out of the relegation zone in their Step 7 division (Rayleigh).

I've actually been to Rayleigh, its nice, and with a population of 32,000 should have a better football club. BUT they don't and the club that bears the town's name does not currently deserve to be anywhere near Step 6.

This is nothing other than geographical bias. Promoting clubs to Step 6 solely because of the patch of land they play on in England. Its nonsense.

Historic, well respected football clubs, with proper grounds and a history of good football, like Brigg Town, Alnwick Town and Darlington Railway Athletic could find themselves relegated to Step 7 in the summer to replaced by this riff raff at Step 6, playing a level below Southend Sports! Its laughable!

If such extreme cherry picking has to take place in order to fill these divisions...what does that tell you?

Maybe the FA are holding out releasing the list of applicants due to sheer embarrassment?


Herb Alpert
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Feb 15, 2018, 6:38 PM

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Post #132 of 744 (10077 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Ok lets talk about Southend Sports, or even Rayleigh Town for that matter.

What is the point in this ridiculous unnecessary league if it is to include clubs that are playing FIVE steps below Step 6 at present (Southend Sports) or clubs that can't even stay out of the relegation zone in their Step 7 division (Rayleigh).

I've actually been to Rayleigh, its nice, and with a population of 32,000 should have a better football club. BUT they don't and the club that bears the town's name does not currently deserve to be anywhere near Step 6.

This is nothing other than geographical bias. Promoting clubs to Step 6 solely because of the patch of land they play on in England. Its nonsense.

Historic, well respected football clubs, with proper grounds and a history of good football, like Brigg Town, Alnwick Town and Darlington Railway Athletic could find themselves relegated to Step 7 in the summer to replaced by this riff raff at Step 6, playing a level below Southend Sports! Its laughable!

If such extreme cherry picking has to take place in order to fill these divisions...what does that tell you?

Maybe the FA are holding out releasing the list of applicants due to sheer embarrassment?


Cannot disagree with any of this. Some of these clubs do deserve the chance to go up, but there is a level of barrel scraping to fill this division. I cannot see how or why clubs from Olympian Div 4 or the Mid Essex League should be under consideration.


Richard Rundle
Man City Transfer Target!

Feb 15, 2018, 7:47 PM

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Post #133 of 744 (9988 views)
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What is the point in this ridiculous unnecessary league if it is to include clubs that are playing FIVE steps below Step 6 at present (Southend Sports) or clubs that can't even stay out of the relegation zone in their Step 7 division (Rayleigh).


Abso-bloomin'-lutely.

If any region of England didn't need extra promotions going to clubs way down the system it is the South East. There were dozens of Step 7 clubs in the region affected, and if the FALC have do scrape the metaphoric barrel, going ahead with establishing it is more to save face than anything else.


windydcfc
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Feb 15, 2018, 8:34 PM

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Post #134 of 744 (9943 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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What is the point in this ridiculous unnecessary league if it is to include clubs that are playing FIVE steps below Step 6 at present (Southend Sports) or clubs that can't even stay out of the relegation zone in their Step 7 division (Rayleigh).


Abso-bloomin'-lutely.

If any region of England didn't need extra promotions going to clubs way down the system it is the South East. There were dozens of Step 7 clubs in the region affected, and if the FALC have do scrape the metaphoric barrel, going ahead with establishing it is more to save face than anything else.



All Southend Sports have done is applied. No where has it been stated that they will be successful. Why all these negative comments, about what ifs?



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


Sarumio
Man City Transfer Target!

Feb 15, 2018, 8:53 PM

Posts: 6329
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Team(s): Salisbury

Post #135 of 744 (9924 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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What is the point in this ridiculous unnecessary league if it is to include clubs that are playing FIVE steps below Step 6 at present (Southend Sports) or clubs that can't even stay out of the relegation zone in their Step 7 division (Rayleigh).


Abso-bloomin'-lutely.

If any region of England didn't need extra promotions going to clubs way down the system it is the South East. There were dozens of Step 7 clubs in the region affected, and if the FALC have do scrape the metaphoric barrel, going ahead with establishing it is more to save face than anything else.



All Southend Sports have done is applied. No where has it been stated that they will be successful. Why all these negative comments, about what ifs?


But its not just about Southend Sports. they're just the extreme. Its just as much about Rayleigh Town. Its about Newbury Forest...and Benfleet! Its about the whole bloomin lot of them! None of them need to be at Step bloody 6!


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Feb 15, 2018, 9:43 PM

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Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #136 of 744 (9861 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To

In Reply To
What is the point in this ridiculous unnecessary league if it is to include clubs that are playing FIVE steps below Step 6 at present (Southend Sports) or clubs that can't even stay out of the relegation zone in their Step 7 division (Rayleigh).


Abso-bloomin'-lutely.

If any region of England didn't need extra promotions going to clubs way down the system it is the South East. There were dozens of Step 7 clubs in the region affected, and if the FALC have do scrape the metaphoric barrel, going ahead with establishing it is more to save face than anything else.



All Southend Sports have done is applied. No where has it been stated that they will be successful. Why all these negative comments, about what ifs?


But its not just about Southend Sports. they're just the extreme. Its just as much about Rayleigh Town. Its about Newbury Forest...and Benfleet! Its about the whole bloomin lot of them! None of them need to be at Step bloody 6!



The Kent step 6 league, started pretty much the same way. I’m sure those teams that struggle, will soon fall back down the pyramid. But you look at Whitchurch Alport were dreadful when they were first promoted & now look at them



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


Sarumio
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Feb 15, 2018, 11:26 PM

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Post #137 of 744 (9727 views)
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In Reply To


All Southend Sports have done is applied. No where has it been stated that they will be successful. Why all these negative comments, about what ifs?


But its not just about Southend Sports. they're just the extreme. Its just as much about Rayleigh Town. Its about Newbury Forest...and Benfleet! Its about the whole bloomin lot of them! None of them need to be at Step bloody 6!



The Kent step 6 league, started pretty much the same way. I’m sure those teams that struggle, will soon fall back down the pyramid. But you look at Whitchurch Alport were dreadful when they were first promoted & now look at them


They won't drop down unless they resign. Look at whats happened with the new Kent setup. Its only the likes or Orpington and probably this season Crockenhill, who have gone, voluntarily. Clubs like Lewisham Borough and Meridian VP just linger like a bad smell, unable to get themselves relegated no matter how hard they try on the field.

Whitchurch Alport had the facilities and the potential. The Essex clubs mentioned, at present have neither.

At best what the FA are trying to do is the right thing but for all the wrong reason. Well actually I don't think its even right!

They are trying to give the Essex Senior League a second tier, even though they seemingly don't trust them to run it. Which is all well and good, its the only Step 5 league without a second tier. But there's a reason it doesn't, its not just bad luck or negligence.

If the FA really want to continue their obsession with creating more Step 6 leagues then maybe they should do some research first to see where they are needed/necessary, instead of obsessing over uniformity.

They could do some research and then sit down at a computer for a few hours like normal people and open up Google Maps. They could then stick a pin on every location in said application where a club at Step 7 has floodlights or at least the potential to actually acquire them, along with clubs with enclosed grounds and standards nearing a Step 6 ground.

Then they could,....oh I don't know.....try looking at the map and see where there are clumps of clubs with said facilities/floodlights.

Then they could go for example "Oh look there's lots of clubs in the East Midlands area that match the criteria, we should create a new Step 6 league there as there is obviously a need for it, we'd probably have no problems filling it"

They'd look at Essex and Suffolk and see a map with no pins on it and go "Oh we don't need one there" and move on!

They've done the complete opposite. Picked an area that has next to NO clubs able to step up and side-lined an area that is crying out for another Step 6 league. Now they're left with the farce of dragging any willing club in the Essex and Suffolk region with the most basic of facilities, up to Step 6 just because...well because they're a bunch of morons!


007Dale
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Feb 16, 2018, 5:15 AM

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Post #138 of 744 (9529 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Have said all along that this league is a farce, and so it comes to pass.
I'd call it Sunday league, but that's an insult to Sunday league.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Feb 16, 2018, 7:15 AM

Posts: 10552
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Post #139 of 744 (9498 views)
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Have said all along that this league is a farce, and so it comes to pass.
I'd call it Sunday league, but that's an insult to Sunday league.



As far as I can tell, most of the clubs that have applied from across East Anglia. Do have decents grounds & have been waiting for a better structure in the area. I mentioned that there’s 3 categories & yet everyone focuses on the teams that have probably failed already? There are a few that will have dispensation. But those clubs must provide proof that they have a development plan in place. The F.A. aren’t going to promote a load of park teams & hope they’ll somehow achieve the grading. Until the ECL releases the list at the start of April, none of us have any idea which clubs will make the final list!
It seems some members on here are professional moaners tbf!



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Feb 16, 2018, 11:26 AM)


windydcfc
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Feb 16, 2018, 7:30 AM

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Post #140 of 744 (9493 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To


All Southend Sports have done is applied. No where has it been stated that they will be successful. Why all these negative comments, about what ifs?


But its not just about Southend Sports. they're just the extreme. Its just as much about Rayleigh Town. Its about Newbury Forest...and Benfleet! Its about the whole bloomin lot of them! None of them need to be at Step bloody 6!



The Kent step 6 league, started pretty much the same way. I’m sure those teams that struggle, will soon fall back down the pyramid. But you look at Whitchurch Alport were dreadful when they were first promoted & now look at them



Whitchurch Alport had the facilities and the potential. The Essex clubs mentioned, at present have neither.


Whitchurch were plucked from a league that feeds into the WMRL2 & the same with Oswestry. I remember the amount of negativity posted about them both & yet they’re both now thriving. COL have done even better & they were castigated even worse.
I personally won’t make a judgment on whether these new ESL1’s are a success or not. Until they’ve had a couple of seasons to bed down.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Feb 16, 2018, 11:00 AM

Posts: 3889
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Post #141 of 744 (9368 views)
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Have said all along that this league is a farce, and so it comes to pass.
I'd call it Sunday league, but that's an insult to Sunday league.



As far as I can tell, most of the clubs that have applied from across East Anglia. Do have decents grounds & have been waiting for a better structure in the area. I mentioned that there’s 3 categories & yet everyone focuses on the teams that have probably failed already? There are a few that will have dispensation. But those clubs must provide proof that they a development plan in place. The F.A. aren’t going to promote a load of park teams & hope they’ll somehow achieve the grading. Until the ECL releases the list at the start of April, none of us have any idea which clubs will make the final list!
It seems some members on here are professional moaners tbf!


Well to put it in perspective.
It does not matter what people think the step 6 expansion in the East Anglian general area is going to happen.
But the example of Kent shows that it takes time and importantly more time than they originally allowed for.
This is season number seven of four and there are still clubs that in the middle of February do not have grade G.
In that time around half a dozen clubs have fallen by the wayside and gone back whence they came.
If its a good idea or not is a matter of opinion but generally when a ruling body in any walk of life try something controversial they make sure its given every bit of leeway imaginable to succeed.
They view Kent as a success so they have no problem with doing it again.


Mister TwoU
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Feb 16, 2018, 12:28 PM

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Post #142 of 744 (9280 views)
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Well to put it in perspective.
It does not matter what people think the step 6 expansion in the East Anglian general area is going to happen.
But the example of Kent shows that it takes time and importantly more time than they originally allowed for.
This is season number seven of four and there are still clubs that in the middle of February do not have grade G.
In that time around half a dozen clubs have fallen by the wayside and gone back whence they came.
If its a good idea or not is a matter of opinion but generally when a ruling body in any walk of life try something controversial they make sure its given every bit of leeway imaginable to succeed.
They view Kent as a success so they have no problem with doing it again.


I personally believe that a Step6 Essex-wide division is not before its time. While some few area teams have managed the jump between the EOL and ESL, there's no doubt whatsoever that the yawning gap twixt Step5 and the rest has been a pretty effective 'moat' all these years.
As in Kent, official elevation to Step6 will allow incumbent clubs access to more in the way of grants, etc., affording greater impetus to improve their grounds and so forth. Win~win!



Professional cretin.


E&E Fred
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Feb 18, 2018, 5:02 PM

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Post #143 of 744 (8512 views)
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Excellent work as always wazzafan!
I couldn't help noticing that you are "promoting" 13 of the 14 Step Five runners up, when I believed it was only 12. Has something changed recently or is this due to the Ossett merger or something else?
Thanks
Rich



Last Ground (607) - Stockport County - 9th November 2019
Last Cup won - Combined Counties League Cup - 2013
Twitter - @EandERich
Website: www.eefconline.co.uk
Website: www.isthmianarchive.co.uk


Sarumio
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Feb 18, 2018, 7:40 PM

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Post #144 of 744 (8430 views)
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Re: [E&E Fred] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Excellent work as always wazzafan!
I couldn't help noticing that you are "promoting" 13 of the 14 Step Five runners up, when I believed it was only 12. Has something changed recently or is this due to the Ossett merger or something else?
Thanks
Rich


Its because of the Ossett merger


HarryC
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Feb 27, 2018, 9:49 AM

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Post #145 of 744 (7378 views)
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

This article posted by Hendon, now shows which geographic areas will be administered by Southern & Isthmian for 2018-19,

The FA's Leagues Committee have been working hard over the past few months to decide the principles to be applied when allocating clubs at Steps 3 & 4 for season 2018/19, and made their final decisions at their meeting on 6th February. They have, this morning, released the details of their principles to the clubs and leagues likely to be involed. For the avoidance of doubt, we currently play at Step 3.

There will be an additional division at Step 3 next season, and the four divisions will consist of a North Division, a Central Division, which will consist of a band from the east coast to the west of Birmingham, a South West division and a South East division. The Southern League will administer the Central and South West divisions, the Isthmian League the South East division and the Northern Premier League the North Division.

There will also be an additional division at Step 4 next season taking the total to 7. The Northern Premier League will administer two Northern Divisions, and they are calling a meeting of its member clubs to decide whether to remain with a north/south split, or to change to an east/west allocation. The Southern League will administer the South Western and Midlands areas, whilst the Isthmian League will administer three divisions, best described as East Anglia, London & South Central and South East.

Obviously the big question for Hendon supporters is which division we are likely to be in if we are at Step 3 next season. It appears, based on maps that the club have received from the FA, that we could be in either of the South West or South East divisions. The border between the two is anticipated to fall somewhere on the western side of London, and depending which clubs are promoted and relegated, will depend on where the border finally falls.

The full league allocations will be made as usual once all the promotion and relegation issues have been resolved, and in previous years has been released in the second or third week of May. The FA emphasise that this is for season 2018/19 and the make-up of clubs in future season may alter this approach.

Posted at 09:01


Provisional maps now being shown in similar article on Southern League website


(This post was edited by HarryC on Feb 27, 2018, 9:53 AM)


windydcfc
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Feb 27, 2018, 1:14 PM

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Re: [HarryC] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

This would be the makeup of an NPL1E:

Holbeach Utd
Spalding Utd
Deeping Rangers
Stamford
Loughborough Dynamos
Gresley
Carlton Town
Belper Town
AFC Mansfield
Lincoln Utd
Sheffield
Stocksbridge PS
Cleethorpes Town
Frickley Athletic
Ossett Utd*possible new name
Brighouse Town
Pontefract Collieries
Tadcaster Albion
Marske Utd
Morpeth Town



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


PaulC
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Feb 27, 2018, 1:32 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
This would be the makeup of an NPL1E:

Holbeach Utd
Spalding Utd
Deeping Rangers
Stamford
Loughborough Dynamos
Gresley
Carlton Town
Belper Town
AFC Mansfield
Lincoln Utd
Sheffield
Stocksbridge PS
Cleethorpes Town
Frickley Athletic
Ossett Utd*possible new name
Brighouse Town
Pontefract Collieries
Tadcaster Albion
Marske Utd
Morpeth Town


And they wonder why NL teams aren't too keen on enforced promotion.


Dazzla84
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Feb 27, 2018, 1:58 PM

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Re: [PaulC] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
This would be the makeup of an NPL1E:

Holbeach Utd
Spalding Utd
Deeping Rangers
Stamford
Loughborough Dynamos
Gresley
Carlton Town
Belper Town
AFC Mansfield
Lincoln Utd
Sheffield
Stocksbridge PS
Cleethorpes Town
Frickley Athletic
Ossett Utd*possible new name
Brighouse Town
Pontefract Collieries
Tadcaster Albion
Marske Utd
Morpeth Town


And they wonder why NL teams aren't too keen on enforced promotion.


Im sure ive read somewhere that the Northern League were after an east/west split at Step 4 a while back and looking at that, it is a lot more manageable than the north south split as all those clubs are within easy reach of the M1 and the A1, even those in the most southerly point of Lincolnshire (Holbeach & Deeping)



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leohoenig
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Re: [Dazzla84] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Anyone care to list he most likely clubs in each section if we go for a North/South spilt?



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windydcfc
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In Reply To
Anyone care to list he most likely clubs in each section if we go for a North/South spilt?



Wazzafan’s projections always have a North/South split. The only thing I didn’t do was work out which 20 clubs would be in the West. Because, I wanted to show the effect an East/West split would have on the northeastern clubs.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


Brightside
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Something like this?

Step 3

https://drive.google.com/..._wll&usp=sharing

Step 4

https://drive.google.com/...OtOv&usp=sharing



2020/2021 based on league positions as at 09/11/2019

Non League Projections - 2020/21 - https://docs.google.com/...fAI/edit?usp=sharing
Step 1 - https://drive.google.com/...1zLX5Ju5&usp=sharing
Step 2 - https://drive.google.com/...REZzvDIU&usp=sharing
Step 3 - https://drive.google.com/...GYGtPp8H&usp=sharing
Step 4 - https://drive.google.com/...DJBN8cC-&usp=sharing
Step 5 - https://drive.google.com/...I48iX_bL&usp=sharing
Step 6 - https://drive.google.com/...siBvGhTK&usp=sharing

(This post was edited by Brightside on Mar 2, 2018, 10:37 AM)


leohoenig
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Re: [Brightside] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

If those are the Step 3 clubs, then hopefully the FA will make a change and give the three most Easterly (Needham Market, Leiston and Lowestoft) Isthmain status - possibly in exchange for Dunstable, Kings Langley and Bishop's Stortford - all of which would find travel to the Midlands easier



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leohoenig
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Re: [Brightside] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Your step 4 projection shows the problem for the NE even if a further Step 4 division is introduced.
Without preferential promotion in the North East, no more than four clubs would be lost from the proposed area - Wisbech, Holbeach, Stamford and Spalding

As it stands, I would propose the following shuffle

Four Glos clubs from South/West to Midlands - Cinderford, Slimbridge, Shortwood and Cirencester - all have good or fair connections via the M5

The four to head west would be Andover, Thatcham, Didcot and Fleet

Isthmian Yellow would then pick up Harlow, Ware, Hertford and Welwyn GC

Might also be worth swapping Thame and Berkhampsted



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nico
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Re: [leohoenig] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

You clearly haven't seen this map the FALC are working to then Leo?

http://www.evostikleaguesouthern.co.uk/step-3-and-4-league-boundaries-for-the-201819-seas-47185





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leohoenig
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Re: [nico] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

No, I've seen it, and I was assuming that the Brightside projection was based on it. It looks plausible.
But the hope is that someone at the FA sticks their pins in the map and makes a change



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
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swjoduk
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Mar 3, 2018, 11:44 PM

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Re: [Brightside] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

As a Taunton fan I'd prefer to lose Bognor and gain Banbury. Bognor to Isthmian, Dunstable to central.

I think I'd also prefer Stratford, Leamington, Redditch and Alvechurch in our league too rather than Surrey and London clubs

Im fact draw a line roughly from Southampton to Oxford and up to Midlands and across to Stratford. When we rejoined SL we were that kind of division


(This post was edited by swjoduk on Mar 3, 2018, 11:47 PM)


hawkwind
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Mar 4, 2018, 1:43 PM

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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Always enjoy looking through each of your updates, paying closer attention as each season draws towards a close.

I suspect the areas of marginal decision that the FALC will have to surmount are well understood by all members. There is no miracle cure but it must be highly frustrating for clubs such as Potters Bar Town to be constantly under threat of a horizontal transfer. Perhaps the FA should provide compensation for one season to any club transferred at a given level to cover any increased travel costs incurred directly as a result of that transfer?

A few thoughts for you.

The publishing of preferred maps indicates that the names of leagues and divisions will reflect their administrations. I would guess at Southern Premier Central and Southern Premier West at Step 3, and Southern One Central, Southern One West, Isthmian One North, Isthmian One South and Isthmian One West at Step 4.

Your Step 3 allocations have Hertfordshire clubs split across three divisions which looks a lot better on the maps than it sounds on first hearing. In fact I wouldn't bet against you having nailed the Step 3 allocation completely.

At Step 4 though I think there are alternatives that may find favour with the FALC.

Using the M3 and A3 as guides I am pretty sure that Gosport Borough would be placed in Isthmian One West swapping on your list with Winchester City in Southern One West.

The River Thames should serve as a natural barrier between Isthmian One North and Isthmian One South so I would expect Phoenix Sports and VCD Athletic to remain in Isthmian One South. The follow-ons to your spreadsheet to achieve that are less clear-cut. Two clubs to exit Isthmian One South for Isthmian One West? Maybe South Park, close to M25 and West of M23, and Guernsey, wouldn't Gatwick still serve them as a natural entry point? Maybe Waltham Abbey and Cheshunt from Isthmian One West to Isthmian One North? Far from simple.


swjoduk
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Mar 4, 2018, 11:43 PM

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Re: [swjoduk] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Southern League with Midlands and south west so:

Taunton
Tivvy
Bideford/BMF/Swindon/Evesham
Frome
Dorchester
Weymouth
Poole
Salisbury
Basingstoke
Merthyr
Banbury
Stratford
Leamington/Tamworth
Redditch
Alvechurch/Bedworth
Halesowen/Sutton Coldfield
Stourbridge
Rushall
Hednesford
Stafford
Barwell
Coalville

If no one from this area down from Nat North/South and no one up from Evo Stik South then include Farnborough and perhaps Hartley Wintney in their place


(This post was edited by swjoduk on Mar 4, 2018, 11:56 PM)


swjoduk
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Mar 5, 2018, 12:38 PM

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Re: [swjoduk] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

My alternative approach to Step 3 using a Southern League with Midlands and West teams


https://drive.google.com/...3Uep&usp=sharing


(This post was edited by swjoduk on Mar 5, 2018, 12:39 PM)


Brightside
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Mar 5, 2018, 3:27 PM

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Re: Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Wazza has updated his spreadsheet and his maps are below;

http://Step 3:http://goo.gl/HDFmG2
http://Step 4:http://goo.gl/V2YxhA

I used Wazza's previous versions to plot how it may look with the teams from a few weeks ago if they use the proposed boundaries



2020/2021 based on league positions as at 09/11/2019

Non League Projections - 2020/21 - https://docs.google.com/...fAI/edit?usp=sharing
Step 1 - https://drive.google.com/...1zLX5Ju5&usp=sharing
Step 2 - https://drive.google.com/...REZzvDIU&usp=sharing
Step 3 - https://drive.google.com/...GYGtPp8H&usp=sharing
Step 4 - https://drive.google.com/...DJBN8cC-&usp=sharing
Step 5 - https://drive.google.com/...I48iX_bL&usp=sharing
Step 6 - https://drive.google.com/...siBvGhTK&usp=sharing

(This post was edited by Brightside on Mar 5, 2018, 3:30 PM)


TomRoystonCrow
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Mar 5, 2018, 4:14 PM

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Re: [Brightside] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I can't view them it says the link is broken


(This post was edited by TomRoystonCrow on Mar 5, 2018, 4:16 PM)


swjoduk
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Mar 5, 2018, 4:22 PM

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Re: [Brightside] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I've seen his latest. Swings and roundabouts. I personally prefer my SL covering mids & sw to the one the FA are running with


borninchesham
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Mar 5, 2018, 6:41 PM

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Re: [swjoduk] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I quite like that swjorduk.

The travelling for Chesham would be far less than being in the Southern next season.

I doubt that it will be considered though!


swjoduk
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Mar 5, 2018, 9:57 PM

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Re: [borninchesham] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Well looks like the FA have decided on the set up Wazza is showing


As a Taunton fan I would say it is easier to go up M5/M6 to Midlands than M4/M25 to North London/home counties


Richard Rundle
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Mar 5, 2018, 10:02 PM

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In Reply To
Well looks like the FA have decided on the set up Wazza is showing

As a Taunton fan I would say it is easier to go up M5/M6 to Midlands than M4/M25 to North London/home counties


What the clubs want, particularly those outside the South East, seems to have very little to do with FALC decisions.


swjoduk
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Mar 5, 2018, 10:21 PM

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Re: [Richard Rundle] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

How do you see it Richard as someone from North Devon?

Easier and quicker to get to the Midlands or likes of Dunstable and North London/home counties sides?


shimtoan
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Mar 6, 2018, 5:12 AM

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Re: [swjoduk] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

so much for a "Midlands" league then



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation


Richard Rundle
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Mar 6, 2018, 7:21 AM

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In Reply To
How do you see it Richard as someone from North Devon?

Easier and quicker to get to the Midlands or likes of Dunstable and North London/home counties sides?


I'm no longer in North Devon (even further away from things now in Cornwall!) but I'd go for the Midlands clubs. Surrey teams aren't too bad, but once you have to go to Herts etc it's more of a pain.


miswell
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Mar 7, 2018, 3:15 PM

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In Reply To
so much for a "Midlands" league then


That's not how it should be referred as. It's a central league rather than midlands.


shimtoan
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Mar 7, 2018, 5:45 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
so much for a "Midlands" league then


That's not how it should be referred as. It's a central league rather than midlands.

fails at being central though.

it's just another south-based league and will do less than nothing to redress the north-south imbalance



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation


Matty
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Mar 7, 2018, 6:17 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
so much for a "Midlands" league then


That's not how it should be referred as. It's a central league rather than midlands.

fails at being central though.

it's just another south-based league and will do less than nothing to redress the north-south imbalance

Just call it Central Midlands! Oh taken, Humberside to Derby and all points in between, probably a few outliers.


miswell
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Mar 7, 2018, 9:28 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
so much for a "Midlands" league then


That's not how it should be referred as. It's a central league rather than midlands.

fails at being central though.

it's just another south-based league and will do less than nothing to redress the north-south imbalance


The imbalance being a greater population in the south with a lot more clubs?


blackdouglas
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Mar 8, 2018, 1:16 AM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
so much for a "Midlands" league then


That's not how it should be referred as. It's a central league rather than midlands.

fails at being central though.

it's just another south-based league and will do less than nothing to redress the north-south imbalance


The North/South imbalance won't change as long as the NPL relegates more clubs than there are promoted to it from northern leagues. The Midland League and United Counties League ARE NOT NORTHERN LEAGUES.



Northwood, Threave Rovers, Arsenal, Rangers (the real ones, NOT qpr),Watford, Rochdale, queen of the south and a few others.


PaulC
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Mar 8, 2018, 8:27 AM

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In Reply To

The imbalance being a greater population in the south with a lot more clubs?


What do you mean greater population the south?

Virtually half the population of England lives north of the Severn/Wash line.

Are there a lot more clubs in the south? Can you show me the evidence?


TrevorT
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Mar 8, 2018, 1:33 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

The imbalance being a greater population in the south with a lot more clubs?


What do you mean greater population the south?

Virtually half the population of England lives north of the Severn/Wash line.

Are there a lot more clubs in the south? Can you show me the evidence?

You just have to count them up.

Using that Severn/Wash line as the North/South border you have:

Step 1 & 2 - 36 South/32 North
Step 3 & 4 - 139 South/69 North
Step 5 - 205 South/ 96 North

If you include the 92 EPL/EFL clubs its 40 South/52 North

So in total given the top 30 Divisions of football in England you have 420 south of the line and 249 north of it (and that includes Cinderford and Lydney being in the North!)


PaulC
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Mar 8, 2018, 2:04 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

The imbalance being a greater population in the south with a lot more clubs?


What do you mean greater population the south?

Virtually half the population of England lives north of the Severn/Wash line.

Are there a lot more clubs in the south? Can you show me the evidence?

You just have to count them up.

Using that Severn/Wash line as the North/South border you have:

Step 1 & 2 - 36 South/32 North
Step 3 & 4 - 139 South/69 North
Step 5 - 205 South/ 96 North

If you include the 92 EPL/EFL clubs its 40 South/52 North

So in total given the top 30 Divisions of football in England you have 420 south of the line and 249 north of it (and that includes Cinderford and Lydney being in the North!)


So there are more clubs in the south at Steps 1-5 because more clubs from the south have been admitted to Steps-1-5.

I see.

I think there's a problem with that analysis.


shimtoan
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Re: [PaulC] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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The imbalance being a greater population in the south with a lot more clubs?


What do you mean greater population the south?

Virtually half the population of England lives north of the Severn/Wash line.

Are there a lot more clubs in the south? Can you show me the evidence?

You just have to count them up.

Using that Severn/Wash line as the North/South border you have:

Step 1 & 2 - 36 South/32 North
Step 3 & 4 - 139 South/69 North
Step 5 - 205 South/ 96 North

If you include the 92 EPL/EFL clubs its 40 South/52 North

So in total given the top 30 Divisions of football in England you have 420 south of the line and 249 north of it (and that includes Cinderford and Lydney being in the North!)


So there are more clubs in the south at Steps 1-5 because more clubs from the south have been admitted to Steps-1-5.

I see.

I think there's a problem with that analysis.

it's because there's been rationalisation in the North and Midlands, but not the South.

Which clubs at Steps 3-7 have then most work to do to get their grounds up to scratch for the level above?

And which Step 7 clubs are more likely to get permission for floodlights?

Are there any Step 6 clubs still without floodlights?



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation


TrevorT
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Mar 8, 2018, 3:07 PM

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Post #178 of 744 (7309 views)
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Re: [PaulC] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Are there a lot more clubs in the south? Can you show me the evidence?

You just have to count them up.

Using that Severn/Wash line as the North/South border you have:

Step 1 & 2 - 36 South/32 North
Step 3 & 4 - 139 South/69 North
Step 5 - 205 South/ 96 North

If you include the 92 EPL/EFL clubs its 40 South/52 North

So in total given the top 30 Divisions of football in England you have 420 south of the line and 249 north of it (and that includes Cinderford and Lydney being in the North!)


So there are more clubs in the south at Steps 1-5 because more clubs from the south have been admitted to Steps-1-5.

I see.

I think there's a problem with that analysis.


Not really an analysis mate. I just counted them up to answer your question


PaulC
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Mar 8, 2018, 6:14 PM

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Post #179 of 744 (7105 views)
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Re: [TrevorT] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Well we know there are far more southern teams than northern teams in Steps 1-5.

There shouldn’t be. That’s the problem.


Sarumio
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Mar 8, 2018, 8:38 PM

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Post #180 of 744 (6958 views)
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Well we know there are far more southern teams than northern teams in Steps 1-5.

There shouldn’t be. That’s the problem.


There aren't as many clubs in the North.

You know this! Why are you wasting people's time?

There are more clubs in Cornwall than there are in the 4 most northerly counties of England (Northumberland, Tyne & Wear, County Durham and Cumbria).

Three of these four counties are 80% empty, and yet are 3 of the largest in the country. So taking up the space they do, with the fewest clubs in the land, they contribute massively to the imbalance of clubs north and south!

The Yorkshires don't help matters - Rugby country. Huge towns like Keighley, Dewsbury, Batley, Bingley, Pudsey, Wakefield and Morley with barely a football club between them!

South Yorkshire has just FIFTY ONE clubs in total below Step 4. A county with just over 1.3 Million people in it.

The East Riding has just the Humber Premier League, the single division of the Driffield & District League and a load of parks teams in the East Riding County League (and the odd club playing in the York League).

Derbyshire is another one - below Step 6 the county is home to only 48 individual clubs.

Below Step 6 Staffordshire has just 36 clubs and only one league in the entire county, home to 1.1 million people.

Shropshire has even less still. Below Step 6 the county is home to just 31 non-league clubs - 3 of whom play in Wales!!

There are more clubs playing in Surrey and East and West Sussex than there are in the whole of Staffordshire, Shropshire, Worcestershire, Herefordshire, Northumberland, South Yorkshire, County Durham and Derbyshire combined!


PaulC
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Post #181 of 744 (6808 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

And yet there are more Step 7 divisions in the northern half of the country thsn in the southern half.

But when you get to Step 5 only 5/14 divisions are in the northern half. As has been pointed out northern leagues have been penalised because of their willingness to rationalise in the past.

The opportunities for progression up the pyramid are restricted in the northern half because of the relative shortage of divisions at Steps 3-6.


Sarumio
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Post #182 of 744 (6491 views)
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And yet there are more Step 7 divisions in the northern half of the country thsn in the southern half.

But when you get to Step 5 only 5/14 divisions are in the northern half. As has been pointed out northern leagues have been penalised because of their willingness to rationalise in the past.

The opportunities for progression up the pyramid are restricted in the northern half because of the relative shortage of divisions at Steps 3-6.


How have you worked that out - I'm guessing by just making it up.

There are more Step 7 leagues in the SOUTH of the country

the split of the Ste p7 leagues is currently 24 in the Southern half and 21 in the Northern half.


windydcfc
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Post #183 of 744 (6276 views)
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The NWCL have been told by the F.A. that up to 3 clubs can potentially be promoted from each of there feeder leagues.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


Mad Bill
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Mar 9, 2018, 12:59 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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And yet there are more Step 7 divisions in the northern half of the country thsn in the southern half.

But when you get to Step 5 only 5/14 divisions are in the northern half. As has been pointed out northern leagues have been penalised because of their willingness to rationalise in the past.

The opportunities for progression up the pyramid are restricted in the northern half because of the relative shortage of divisions at Steps 3-6.


How have you worked that out - I'm guessing by just making it up.

There are more Step 7 leagues in the SOUTH of the country

the split of the Ste p7 leagues is currently 24 in the Southern half and 21 in the Northern half.


Depending on where you draw the line.


Sarumio
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Re: [Mad Bill] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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And yet there are more Step 7 divisions in the northern half of the country thsn in the southern half.

But when you get to Step 5 only 5/14 divisions are in the northern half. As has been pointed out northern leagues have been penalised because of their willingness to rationalise in the past.

The opportunities for progression up the pyramid are restricted in the northern half because of the relative shortage of divisions at Steps 3-6.


How have you worked that out - I'm guessing by just making it up.

There are more Step 7 leagues in the SOUTH of the country

the split of the Ste p7 leagues is currently 24 in the Southern half and 21 in the Northern half.


Depending on where you draw the line.


I drew the line at 50% of the area of England being above the line and 50% being below the line!

Basically Gloucestershire, Oxfordshire, Northamptonshire, Cambridgeshire and Norfolk being in the south. Every county north of them is in the northern half.


wazzafan
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Post #186 of 744 (6004 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or

All updated following the East/West NPL vote.

Couple of questions from me.

Are Shelley's & Steeton's applications separate from other Step 7 clubs (i.e. NWCFL specific). I ask because Shelley have no chance of achieving a top 5 finish and if only 1 club can be promoted from the West Riding League, Steeton might miss out if they finish behind Route One Rovers.

Finally, if anyone has any details of clubs changing grounds for next season I'll be very grateful.


windydcfc
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Mar 9, 2018, 4:41 PM

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Post #187 of 744 (5914 views)
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All updated following the East/West NPL vote.

Couple of questions from me.

Are Shelley's & Steeton's applications separate from other Step 7 clubs (i.e. NWCFL specific). I ask because Shelley have no chance of achieving a top 5 finish and if only 1 club can be promoted from the West Riding League, Steeton might miss out if they finish behind Route One Rovers.

Finally, if anyone has any details of clubs changing grounds for next season I'll be very grateful.



Route One haven’t secured the groundshare & have failed the grading.
Shelley & Steeton have specifically applied to be promoted to join the new NWCL. The NWCL & NCEL have had discussion with the F.A. about securing current step 6 status to as many clubs as possible. This is mainly in regards to the clubs just outside the normal relegation positions. I believe up to 5 extra clubs could potentially be relegated from the NCEL1. So the NWCL have said they’ll accept West Yorkshire clubs being laterally transferred from the NCEL. So Eccleshill Utd, Campion & Emley could potentially be moved across.
Steeton are groundsharing at Keighley’s rugby league ground next season.
Newcastle Uni are becoming joint tenants at Druids Park next season.
Boro Rangers are in discussion about joint tenancy & hopefully will announce something soon.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


kivo
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Mar 9, 2018, 4:53 PM

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Post #188 of 744 (5896 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Is it any wonder that there are far more southern sides than northern in the pyramid?

They have to travel far less than the northern clubs - ensuring they do far better financially.


kimbo_king
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Mar 9, 2018, 5:41 PM

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Post #189 of 744 (5849 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Having Eccleshill, Emley & Shelley in the NWCFL is crazy


ictoan
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Mar 9, 2018, 7:31 PM

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Post #190 of 744 (5705 views)
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Re: [kimbo_king] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Didn't a West Yorkshire club (Bradford PA?) once insist on being placed in the NWCL rather than the NC(E)L ?



There 'Ant no place like Sussex, until you goes above, 'Cause Sussex will be Sussex and Sussex wunt be druv.

The North begins at Gatwick.


windydcfc
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Post #191 of 744 (5660 views)
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Re: [kimbo_king] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Having Eccleshill, Emley & Shelley in the NWCFL is crazy



If you put a line halfway between the North Sea & the Irish Sea. Then I’d say those clubs would be west of that line. There has to be a line separating step 5 leagues & as long as there’s enough local derbies in a league. Then I can’t see a problem with the western West Yorkshire clubs being in the NWCL1N.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


PaulC
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Mar 9, 2018, 8:37 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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And yet there are more Step 7 divisions in the northern half of the country thsn in the southern half.

But when you get to Step 5 only 5/14 divisions are in the northern half. As has been pointed out northern leagues have been penalised because of their willingness to rationalise in the past.

The opportunities for progression up the pyramid are restricted in the northern half because of the relative shortage of divisions at Steps 3-6.


How have you worked that out - I'm guessing by just making it up.

There are more Step 7 leagues in the SOUTH of the country

the split of the Ste p7 leagues is currently 24 in the Southern half and 21 in the Northern half.


Even if you figures were correct they make the case for me.

However, the actual number of divisions at Step 7 is as follows:

South 22
Anglian
Bedfordshire
Cambridgeshire
Dorset Prem
Essex & Suffolk
Essex Olympian
Gloucs County
Hants Prem
Herts Senior
Kent County
Mid Sussex
Middlesex County
Oxon Senior
Somerset County
SW Pen D1E
SW Pen D1W
Southern Comb 2
Spartan SM2
Suffolk & Ipswich
Surrey Elite
Thames Valley
Wiltshire

North 22
Central Midlands N
Central Midlands S
Cheshire
Humber Premier
Lincs League
Liverpool County
Manchester
Leics Senior
Midland D2
North Riding
Northants Comb
Sheffield & Hallam
Northern Alliance
Notts Senior
Staffs County
Wearside
West Cheshire
West Lancs
West Midland
West Riding
West Yorks
York

Peterborough & District split between N&S


So from an even split at Step 7 the pyramid then squeezes out the north at Steps 5 and 6

9 south and 5 north at Step 5 and 10 south and 7 north at Step 6.

This imbalance is carried into Steps3/4 too.


Sarumio
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And yet there are more Step 7 divisions in the northern half of the country thsn in the southern half.

But when you get to Step 5 only 5/14 divisions are in the northern half. As has been pointed out northern leagues have been penalised because of their willingness to rationalise in the past.

The opportunities for progression up the pyramid are restricted in the northern half because of the relative shortage of divisions at Steps 3-6.


How have you worked that out - I'm guessing by just making it up.

There are more Step 7 leagues in the SOUTH of the country

the split of the Ste p7 leagues is currently 24 in the Southern half and 21 in the Northern half.


Even if you figures were correct they make the case for me.

However, the actual number of divisions at Step 7 is as follows:

South 22
Anglian
Bedfordshire
Cambridgeshire
Dorset Prem
Essex & Suffolk
Essex Olympian
Gloucs County
Hants Prem
Herts Senior
Kent County
Mid Sussex
Middlesex County
Oxon Senior
Somerset County
SW Pen D1E
SW Pen D1W
Southern Comb 2
Spartan SM2
Suffolk & Ipswich
Surrey Elite
Thames Valley
Wiltshire

North 22
Central Midlands N
Central Midlands S
Cheshire
Humber Premier
Lincs League
Liverpool County
Manchester
Leics Senior
Midland D2
North Riding
Northants Comb
Sheffield & Hallam
Northern Alliance
Notts Senior
Staffs County
Wearside
West Cheshire
West Lancs
West Midland
West Riding
West Yorks
York

Peterborough & District split between N&S


So from an even split at Step 7 the pyramid then squeezes out the north at Steps 5 and 6

9 south and 5 north at Step 5 and 10 south and 7 north at Step 6.

This imbalance is carried into Steps3/4 too.





Firstly - the Northamptonshire Combination is in the southern half of the country. All its members are in the county of Northamptonshire which is south of the line.

I counted the Peterborough League also, as southern as the bulk of its members are Cambridgeshire based, which again is south of the line. Only Long Sutton, Moulton Harrox, Crowland, Langtoft, Tydd St Mary, Sutton Bridge and the two Stamford clubs are north of it.


PS - and Uppingham of course!


(This post was edited by Sarumio on Mar 9, 2018, 9:07 PM)


PaulC
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Post #194 of 744 (5511 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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And yet there are more Step 7 divisions in the northern half of the country thsn in the southern half.

But when you get to Step 5 only 5/14 divisions are in the northern half. As has been pointed out northern leagues have been penalised because of their willingness to rationalise in the past.

The opportunities for progression up the pyramid are restricted in the northern half because of the relative shortage of divisions at Steps 3-6.


How have you worked that out - I'm guessing by just making it up.

There are more Step 7 leagues in the SOUTH of the country

the split of the Ste p7 leagues is currently 24 in the Southern half and 21 in the Northern half.


Even if you figures were correct they make the case for me.

However, the actual number of divisions at Step 7 is as follows:

South 22
Anglian
Bedfordshire
Cambridgeshire
Dorset Prem
Essex & Suffolk
Essex Olympian
Gloucs County
Hants Prem
Herts Senior
Kent County
Mid Sussex
Middlesex County
Oxon Senior
Somerset County
SW Pen D1E
SW Pen D1W
Southern Comb 2
Spartan SM2
Suffolk & Ipswich
Surrey Elite
Thames Valley
Wiltshire

North 22
Central Midlands N
Central Midlands S
Cheshire
Humber Premier
Lincs League
Liverpool County
Manchester
Leics Senior
Midland D2
North Riding
Northants Comb
Sheffield & Hallam
Northern Alliance
Notts Senior
Staffs County
Wearside
West Cheshire
West Lancs
West Midland
West Riding
West Yorks
York

Peterborough & District split between N&S


So from an even split at Step 7 the pyramid then squeezes out the north at Steps 5 and 6

9 south and 5 north at Step 5 and 10 south and 7 north at Step 6.

This imbalance is carried into Steps3/4 too.





Firstly - the Northamptonshire Combination is in the southern half of the country. All its members are in the county of Northamptonshire which is south of the line.

I counted the Peterborough League also, as southern as the bulk of its members are Cambridgeshire based, which again is south of the line. Only Long Sutton, Moulton Harrox, Crowland, Langtoft, Tydd St Mary, Sutton Bridge and the two Stamford clubs are north of it.


PS - and Uppingham of course!


Northamptonshire is in the northern half of the country as defined by the Severn/Wash line and the counties which border it. It is in the East Midlands region.



If you wish to appropriate Northants for the south then the N/S imbalance at Steps 5/6 is even more pronounced with many UCL teams being redefined as southern teams.


Sarumio
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Mar 9, 2018, 10:28 PM

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Post #195 of 744 (5469 views)
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Re: [PaulC] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

If you place Northamptonshire in the North then the north would have both more LAND and higher POPULATION than the south.


If you place Northamptonshire in the South then the North and South are more or less equal on land area and population.


Therefore it should be placed south! That map shows the regions of England set out by the government. They have not done it to determine the north/south divide. That simply was not their aim.


So yes if Northamptonshire is placed south then most UCL teams would be defined as southern too. Which again backs up my case that there are more teams in the southern half of the country than the north! I have explained the reasons why:

The 3 LARGE most northerly counties have VERY low populations, in spite of their sheer size. In spite of its huge population Tyne & Wear has very few clubs, far less than its southern counterpart, Bristol for instance!
The next county down from them is North Yorkshire, the largest county in the country, with very few large settlements and very few clubs per square mile.
West Yorkshire and South Yorkshire (with a combined population of only 3 million) are rugby dominated areas, with many, many large towns with no football club whatsoever.
Other counties in the northern half like Worcestershire, Herefordshire, Staffordshire and Shropshire have VERY VERY few teams, much less than their rural southern counterparts like Wiltshire, Dorset and Gloucestershire.


If North Yorkshire simply wasn't there, if every town in South Yorkshire had a football club, if the West Yorkshire towns weren't so obsessed with Egg Chasing and if counties like Staffordshire had a healthy number of clubs then there wouldn't be such an imbalance but that isn't the case, and there is and the above is simply why that imbalance exists!


You can't have 7 Step 5 leagues in the North because there simply aren't enough clubs up there with the right facilities to do it. The only area in the northern half that could get an extra Step 5 league is the Midlands area due to the rather unique situation in Nottinghamshire where clubs can get floodlights at will.


But that isn't ever going to help the likes of Morpeth Town. Sadly. Morpeth need a load of clubs to spring up at random in West Yorkshire and North Yorkshire to help them. But that's not where the clubs are springing up. There's a void called County Durham and North Yorkshire in their way and they are NEVER going to produce enough clubs to stop Morpeth having to travel to Nottinghamshire any time soon!


(This post was edited by Sarumio on Mar 9, 2018, 10:29 PM)


shimtoan
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Mar 9, 2018, 10:32 PM

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Post #196 of 744 (5462 views)
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Re: [PaulC] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I've been deliberately saying "North & Midlands" to eliminate the Northants debate.

Northants clubs have always fallen in the "Conference North" catchment area



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation


PaulC
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Mar 9, 2018, 11:15 PM

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Post #197 of 744 (5408 views)
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If you place Northamptonshire in the North then the north would have both more LAND and higher POPULATION than the south.


If you place Northamptonshire in the South then the North and South are more or less equal on land area and population. oon!


That's wrong.

Population and area of English regions

NORTH
NE 2.6m, 8.6k km2
NW 7.1m, 14.2k km2
Yorks/Humber 5.3m, 15.4k km2
West Midlands 5.6 m, 13.0k km2
East Midlands (including Northants) 4.5 m, 15.6k km2
TOTAL pop 25.1m, area 66.8k km2

SOUTH
East 5.8m, 19.1k km2
SE 8,6m, 23.8k km2
London 8.2m, 1.6k km2
SW 5.3m, 23.8k km2
TOTAL 27.9m, 68.3k km2
source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regions_of_England


You have already been shown there are just as many step 7 divisions in the north as there are in the south. THere is a bottleneck in the north though since it receives an unfair share of Step5/6 leagues. We have seen what happened when the NWC opened its doors to mass applications when it regionalised Division One - it was overwhelmed with applications. The NWC footprint could support an additional division at Step 5 as could the NCE (or a stand alone East Midlands division. That would mean 7 north 9 south divisions at Step 5, which is still unfair but getting a little closer to a fair distribution of divisions.

A fair distribution of divisions at Step 5 is a prerequiste for a sustainable fair distribution at Steps 3/4. But first and foremost there should be a bloc promotion of 10 or so NL clubs.


SimonG
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Mar 10, 2018, 7:35 AM

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Post #198 of 744 (5197 views)
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Re: [shimtoan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I've been deliberately saying "North & Midlands" to eliminate the Northants debate.

Northants clubs have always fallen in the "Conference North" catchment area




************************

It is very likely that the only Northants club at Step 2 will be in "Conference South" next season.



shimtoan
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Mar 10, 2018, 9:31 AM

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I've been deliberately saying "North & Midlands" to eliminate the Northants debate.

Northants clubs have always fallen in the "Conference North" catchment area




************************

It is very likely that the only Northants club at Step 2 will be in "Conference South" next season.


As far as I can see, both from the NPL will go North, both from the Isthmian will go South.

It's likely Hereford will go up, in which case they'll go North. King's Lynn or Kettering would go North, but all others in contention in the SL would go South. KL or Kettering would put Brackley South, yes, but Kettering are also a Northants club, which would split Northants.

So that gives 1/4 chance that all Northants clubs at Step 2 would be South. 1/4 they'll be split, and 1/2 Brackley will be North.

So Brackley Town have a 50:50 chance of going either way.

Unless Hereford are put South to partner Gloucester.

Of course, Brackley are well in contention for a play-off place, needing to drop 15 points to Chorley to miss out.

It'll be an interesting couple of months.

But, yes, there could be a Northants club in the South for the first time next season.

I'll be honest here, I've always seen Northants as southern as Northampton Town aren't featured on East Midlands Today and is south of Watford Gap.

I see Corby and Kettering as East Midlands, but not Brackley or Silverstone.

Bladdy geography



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation


borninchesham
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I am intrigued by the idea that a north/south split should be based on a line between the Wash & the Severn. The Wash being north of Birmingham & the Severn being south of Oxford. This can only be used if you are trying to balance the number of clubs in the non league pyramid!

If England is a straight divide, the central point is Fenny Drayton in Leicestershire. Therefore everything south of there can't be included in the north!

If you are dividing the country into three, the north is defined (by Wikipedia) as roughly being north of the Trent.


Sarumio
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I am intrigued by the idea that a north/south split should be based on a line between the Wash & the Severn. The Wash being north of Birmingham & the Severn being south of Oxford. This can only be used if you are trying to balance the number of clubs in the non league pyramid!

If England is a straight divide, the central point is Fenny Drayton in Leicestershire. Therefore everything south of there can't be included in the north!

If you are dividing the country into three, the north is defined (by Wikipedia) as roughly being north of the Trent.


UM we don't live in a rectangle. Therefore the line can never be straight across


PaulC
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I am intrigued by the idea that a north/south split should be based on a line between the Wash & the Severn. The Wash being north of Birmingham & the Severn being south of Oxford. This can only be used if you are trying to balance the number of clubs in the non league pyramid!

If England is a straight divide, the central point is Fenny Drayton in Leicestershire. Therefore everything south of there can't be included in the north!

If you are dividing the country into three, the north is defined (by Wikipedia) as roughly being north of the Trent.


The Severn/Wash line not only divides England (approximately) by population but also by land area.

The northern "half" contains what are generally described as "the North" and "the Midlands".

The Severn/Wssh line follow the boundaries of the official Regions of England.

Blue - the north
Green - the midlands
Yellow the south




Sarumio
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If you place Northamptonshire in the North then the north would have both more LAND and higher POPULATION than the south.


If you place Northamptonshire in the South then the North and South are more or less equal on land area and population. oon!


That's wrong.

Population and area of English regions

NORTH
NE 2.6m, 8.6k km2
NW 7.1m, 14.2k km2
Yorks/Humber 5.3m, 15.4k km2
West Midlands 5.6 m, 13.0k km2
East Midlands (including Northants) 4.5 m, 15.6k km2
TOTAL pop 25.1m, area 66.8k km2

SOUTH
East 5.8m, 19.1k km2
SE 8,6m, 23.8k km2
London 8.2m, 1.6k km2
SW 5.3m, 23.8k km2
TOTAL 27.9m, 68.3k km2
source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regions_of_England


You have already been shown there are just as many step 7 divisions in the north as there are in the south. THere is a bottleneck in the north though since it receives an unfair share of Step5/6 leagues. We have seen what happened when the NWC opened its doors to mass applications when it regionalised Division One - it was overwhelmed with applications. The NWC footprint could support an additional division at Step 5 as could the NCE (or a stand alone East Midlands division. That would mean 7 north 9 south divisions at Step 5, which is still unfair but getting a little closer to a fair distribution of divisions.

A fair distribution of divisions at Step 5 is a prerequiste for a sustainable fair distribution at Steps 3/4. But first and foremost there should be a bloc promotion of 10 or so NL clubs.


OK you've quoted a source and then massaged (outright changed) the figures to prove your incorrect point.

Why have you awarded the South East region almost 5,000 square kilometres of extra land that doesn't exist. The source states the area of this region as 19,100 square km, not 23,800.

So with the correct figures:

the North covers 66,804 km2
The south covers 63,616km2

So to even it up 32% of Northamptonshire is in the North and the remaining 68% is in the Southern half of the country.

Then both North and the South of England cover 65,210 square km each.

So the north can claim 32% of the UCL and Northants Combo and about 15% of the Peterborough & Dist League - the rest of those divisions are in the south!


PaulC
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My mistake - I copied across the SW figures to the SE.

But so what?

It doesn't really matter whether we place Northants in the southern half or whether we place it in the northern half, along with the rest of the East Midlands.

The incontrovertible fact is that the northern half gets a raw deal at Steps 5/6. Roughly half the population of England, roughly half of the divisions at Step 7 but 5/14 divisions at Step 5. It's even worse if we accept your argument and place Northants in the southern half - then it's just 4.3/14!

An absolute disgrace, I'm sure you'll agree..


Westbrookewing
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Re: [PaulC] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Perhaps the NHS should b e East -West rather than North-South. Anyone for a National League East and WestTongue


Sarumio
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My mistake - I copied across the SW figures to the SE.

But so what?

It doesn't really matter whether we place Northants in the southern half or whether we place it in the northern half, along with the rest of the East Midlands.

The incontrovertible fact is that the northern half gets a raw deal at Steps 5/6. Roughly half the population of England, roughly half of the divisions at Step 7 but 5/14 divisions at Step 5. It's even worse if we accept your argument and place Northants in the southern half - then it's just 4.3/14!

An absolute disgrace, I'm sure you'll agree..


Look Paul, I do genuinely get where you are coming from but you are simply still not taking in the information I have given.

There is an imbalance in the number of clubs. If you put another three Step 5 and 6 divisions in the North, they simply could not be filled.

That would be SIX divisions of 20 clubs - that's 120 clubs. There are NOT 120 clubs in the northern half of the country currently playing blow Step 6 able to fill three new Step 5 and 6 leagues.

And that's because of the reasons I have given, large unpopulated counties, Rugby dominated Yorkshire, Newcastle and Manchester and Liverpool all having far less clubs than the big cities in the south!

Yes you could probably muster enough clubs for another division in the Midlands but that's it. You can't create a new 40-team step 5 and 6 league in the Yorkshires and the counties north of it as well, there are no clubs there!


Sarumio
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Also take the four Yorkshires for example.


The four counties combined have a population of 5.2 million people. Almost 10% of the population of England. They cover 14,850 km2 - again almost 10% of England's land area.


They should have about 1 and half step 5 and 6 leagues between them. They should have around 80-90 clubs playing at Step 5 and 6.


But they don't! And its not because they don't have enough leagues. Its because they don't have enough CLUBS!


If you stripped out every non-Yorkshire clubs from the NCEL you'd be left with just 29 clubs from the Yorkshires playing at Step 5 and 6. Not even enough for one Step 5/6 league.


At Step 7 they have 6 of the 45 Step 7 leagues. At 10% of the population and land area, they should have 10% of the Step 7 leagues, they actually have more than they should!


The north as a whole has roughly the right amount of Step 7 clubs - what its missing is Step 5 and 6 clubs - but they aren't there! They are missing! They don't exist! And its because of Rugby. If Rugby wasn't invented, you'd probably have football clubs with enclosed grounds and floodlights from Castleford, Keighley, Wakefield, Batley, Dewsbury, Shipley, Bingley, Redcar, Pudsey, Normanton, Holmfirth, Yeadon, Wath-upon-Dearne, Bentley, Wombwell, Mexborough, Hoyland, Rothwell, Mirfield, Horsforth, Rawmarsh, Ripon, Elland, Beverley, Cottingham, Hessle, Consbrough, Adwick-le-Street, Yarm, Baildon, Hatfield, Skipton, Otley, Driffield and Ilkley and many more!


Bottom line is football isn't played in equal measure all over the country! And so those clubs that do play in the north from Step 2 downwards, suffer and have to travel further to play opponents!


windydcfc
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Post #208 of 744 (8469 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

How many clubs at step 7 would apply to a new Yorkshire step 6 league? Just look at all the clubs applying to join the NWCL this season. The F.A. would allow a step 6 league to start with 16 clubs. Have you included all the North Lincolnshire sides into the 29 clubs? Because they would naturally be included into that league & not an East Midlands/Lincolnshire step 5 league. One thing you can agree on, is there’s definitely enough clubs at steps 5 to 7 to create an East Midlands step 5 & 6 league!



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


Sarumio
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Post #209 of 744 (8418 views)
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How many clubs at step 7 would apply to a new Yorkshire step 6 league? Just look at all the clubs applying to join the NWCL this season. The F.A. would allow a step 6 league to start with 16 clubs. Have you included all the North Lincolnshire sides into the 29 clubs? Because they would naturally be included into that league & not an East Midlands/Lincolnshire step 5 league. One thing you can agree on, is there’s definitely enough clubs at steps 5 to 7 to create an East Midlands step 5 & 6 league!


Almost agreed - there's enough clubs to create another 20-team division. But not two.

I could agree to bumping the East Midlands Counties League (the league, not its present member clubs) up to Step 5 and creating a new Step 6 division below it.

But as said above you couldn't just bump their existing members up. You'd have to group all current ML Prem and D1, WMRL Prem and EMCL clubs and all current Step 7 teams in the area that can and want to move up, into one basket, and then place them in the appropriate leagues until they are all full at 20 a piece.


PaulC
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The north as a whole has roughly the right amount of Step 7 clubs - what its missing is Step 5 and 6 clubs - but they aren't there! They are missing! They don't exist! And its because of Rugby.


They are missing because the divisions haven’t been provided for them to progress. You can’t participate at Step 5/6 if there is no provision for you. There’s nowhere for them to go.

Clubs in the areas covered by the NCE and NWC are penalised because they played in leagues which rationalised in order to raise standards. Meanwhile the south still has its county leagues in name or all but name at Step 5.

The NWC is already oversubscribed with 45 teams at Step 5/6. Another 20 have applied to join. The area covered by NWC has 6 Step 7 feeders! How on earth can you argue the teams aren’t there when you compare that with some of the glorified county leagues in the south.

The NCE has a full complement of 44 at Steps 5/6 with another 22 at Step 6 in the East Midland Counties League. At least 10 Step 7 divisions are in the area covered. Again, what do you mean by saying there aren’t enough teams?

What does the Essex Senior League have? 21 teams at Step 5, no Step 6 league and one Step 7 league with 13 teams!

What do the glorified Sussex and Kent League have?

Kent (SCE) Step 5 20 teams, Step 6 19 teams, Step 7 1 division
Sussex (S Comb) Step 5 20 teams, Step 6 18 teams, Step 7 1 division.

The north is being ripped off.


(This post was edited by PaulC on Mar 10, 2018, 8:08 PM)


windydcfc
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How many clubs at step 7 would apply to a new Yorkshire step 6 league? Just look at all the clubs applying to join the NWCL this season. The F.A. would allow a step 6 league to start with 16 clubs. Have you included all the North Lincolnshire sides into the 29 clubs? Because they would naturally be included into that league & not an East Midlands/Lincolnshire step 5 league. One thing you can agree on, is there’s definitely enough clubs at steps 5 to 7 to create an East Midlands step 5 & 6 league!


Almost agreed - there's enough clubs to create another 20-team division. But not two.

I could agree to bumping the East Midlands Counties League (the league, not its present member clubs) up to Step 5 and creating a new Step 6 division below it.

But as said above you couldn't just bump their existing members up. You'd have to group all current ML Prem and D1, WMRL Prem and EMCL clubs and all current Step 7 teams in the area that can and want to move up, into one basket, and then place them in the appropriate leagues until they are all full at 20 a piece.



The East Midlands step 5 league should start at the east coast. So the Lincs & Leics clubs in the UCL, should be included into the pot!
That’s why I personally think the F.A. should redraw the whole step 5 Map.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


ictoan
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Re: [PaulC] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Clubs in the areas covered by the NCE and NWC are penalised because they played in leagues which rationalised in order to raise standards. Meanwhile the south still has its county leagues in name or all but name at Step 5.

I Think I'm old enough to remember the state of Non-League football in the era when these Leagues were formed.
One of the major reasons for the so called rationalisation of the leagues was that existing leagues were failing. In the North West the Cheshire League was expanding at the expense of the Lancashire Combination. Clubs from the latter were progressively leaving and applying to join the Cheshire League. If the NWCL hadn't been formed as it was, the Cheshire League would have eventually fulfilled that purpose. Don't forget that the new League originally had 3 divisions. Ask yourself what happened to the third division?
The NC (E) took in the Midland Counties and the Yorkshire League. The former had been a very strong League almost equivalent to the Southern League but had gradually deteriorated until it collapsed. It was a revived after a season but never achieved its former status. The amalgamation probably saved it from a second fading away. Again the new league had multiple divisions but lost many clubs to an expanding Central Midlands League.
In the same way the Northern League is a victim of previous decisions, the other two Northern Step 5 Leagues are victims of theirs.
Incidentally at the time I thought that the Sussex and Kent Leagues should have amalgamated but in hind sight am glad they didn't.



There 'Ant no place like Sussex, until you goes above, 'Cause Sussex will be Sussex and Sussex wunt be druv.

The North begins at Gatwick.


PaulC
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Mar 10, 2018, 9:57 PM

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Don't forget that the new League originally had 3 divisions. Ask yourself what happened to the third division?


What happened was that the NPL added a single second division in 1987-88 and a second one in 2007-8.

There were 51 teams in the NWC in 1986-7.

Of those 51
2 are in the Football League
17 have been promoted to the NPL or National League.

Despite that, there’ll be more teams in the NWC next season than when it last had 3 divisions.


(This post was edited by PaulC on Mar 10, 2018, 9:58 PM)


ictoan
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Despite that, there’ll be more teams in the NWC next season than when it last had 3 divisions.


How many of those qualify to form two Step 5 Leagues?



There 'Ant no place like Sussex, until you goes above, 'Cause Sussex will be Sussex and Sussex wunt be druv.

The North begins at Gatwick.


Sarumio
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Mar 10, 2018, 10:50 PM

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The north as a whole has roughly the right amount of Step 7 clubs - what its missing is Step 5 and 6 clubs - but they aren't there! They are missing! They don't exist! And its because of Rugby.


They are missing because the divisions haven’t been provided for them to progress. You can’t participate at Step 5/6 if there is no provision for you. There’s nowhere for them to go.
Them? WHO exactly - name this mysterious clubs that are being kept down?

Clubs in the areas covered by the NCE and NWC are penalised because they played in leagues which rationalised in order to raise standards. Meanwhile the south still has its county leagues in name or all but name at Step 5.

The NWC is already oversubscribed with 45 teams at Step 5/6. Another 20 have applied to join. The area covered by NWC has 6 Step 7 feeders! How on earth can you argue the teams aren’t there when you compare that with some of the glorified county leagues in the south.
We aren't talking about the NWCL here. Or even the Midlands. We are talking about the rest of the north.PS the NWCL does NOT have 7 Step 7 leagues feeding it - it has 5.5.

The NCE has a full complement of 44 at Steps 5/6 with another 22 at Step 6 in the East Midland Counties League. At least 10 Step 7 divisions are in the area covered. Again, what do you mean by saying there aren’t enough teams?
There aren't enough teams in.....drum roll please.....YORKSHIRE, LINCOLNSHIRE AND EVERYTHING ABOVE! We've already clarified there's enough teams in the Midlands to form another Step 6 league - but the same cannot be said outside of Notts/Derbs.

What does the Essex Senior League have? 21 teams at Step 5, no Step 6 league and one Step 7 league with 13 teams!

What do the glorified Sussex and Kent League have?
These glorified county leagues still manage to sustain 77 Step 5 and 6 clubs. Can Yorkshire do that?

Kent (SCE) Step 5 20 teams, Step 6 19 teams, Step 7 1 division
Sussex (S Comb) Step 5 20 teams, Step 6 18 teams, Step 7 1 division.
Two divisions actually - Mid Sussex and SCL Div Two

The north is being ripped off.
Paul - do me a favour as I'm tired of going over old ground - just note down some teams that you think could form a new Step 5 and 6 league anywhere in the area covered by the 4 most northerly counties, the four Yorkshires and North Lincolnshire. Find me 40 clubs anywhere in that area, not already playing at Step 5 and 6, that could be brought up to form a new Step 5 and 6. I'm not being awkward, I am genuinely curious who they could be!



blackdouglas
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And let's not forget, when the NWCL and NC(E) were formed they were Step 2 in The Pyramid, (feeders to a single NPL division which sat directly below The Football League at the time) now they are Step 5 and still cover the same geographical footprints they did when Step 2. The county leagues in the South that PaulC refers to have never been better than Step 3.



Northwood, Threave Rovers, Arsenal, Rangers (the real ones, NOT qpr),Watford, Rochdale, queen of the south and a few others.


jrev61
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And let's not forget, when the NWCL and NC(E) were formed they were Step 2 in The Pyramid, (feeders to a single NPL division which sat directly below The Football League at the time) now they are Step 5 and still cover the same geographical footprints they did when Step 2. The county leagues in the South that PaulC refers to have never been better than Step 3.


Not true. The Conference was formed in 1979 the North West Counties League and Northern Counties East League were formed in 1982. Therefore they were step 3.



jrev61


PaulC
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The north as a whole has roughly the right amount of Step 7 clubs - what its missing is Step 5 and 6 clubs - but they aren't there! They are missing! They don't exist! And its because of Rugby.


They are missing because the divisions haven’t been provided for them to progress. You can’t participate at Step 5/6 if there is no provision for you. There’s nowhere for them to go.
Them? WHO exactly - name this mysterious clubs that are being kept down?

Those clubs for whom there is no place at Step 5/6. We have seen in the NWC area what happens when a regional Step 6 is added - 20 Step 7 clubs suddenly appear to fill the places. That's how you get them - you provide divisions for them to fill.
==============
Clubs in the areas covered by the NCE and NWC are penalised because they played in leagues which rationalised in order to raise standards. Meanwhile the south still has its county leagues in name or all but name at Step 5.

The NWC is already oversubscribed with 45 teams at Step 5/6. Another 20 have applied to join. The area covered by NWC has 6 Step 7 feeders! How on earth can you argue the teams aren’t there when you compare that with some of the glorified county leagues in the south.
We aren't talking about the NWCL here. Or even the Midlands. We are talking about the rest of the north.PS the NWCL does NOT have 7 Step 7 leagues feeding it - it has 5.5.

I don't know what it is that you are talking about, but I'm most definitely talking about the areas covered by the NWC and NCE - both short-changed by the distorted pyramid at Steps 5/6.

So there are 5.5 Step 7 divisions in the NWC footprint. Then they hit the bottleneck. TWO Step 5 leagues, NCE and NWC, have around 16 Step 7 feeders. The whole of the south - 9 Step 5 leagues has 22 feeders.

And you wonder where the clubs will come from!!!!

==========================

The NCE has a full complement of 44 at Steps 5/6 with another 22 at Step 6 in the East Midland Counties League. At least 10 Step 7 divisions are in the area covered. Again, what do you mean by saying there aren’t enough teams?
There aren't enough teams in.....drum roll please.....YORKSHIRE, LINCOLNSHIRE AND EVERYTHING ABOVE! We've already clarified there's enough teams in the Midlands to form another Step 6 league - but the same cannot be said outside of Notts/Derbs.

10 Step 7 leagues - not enough teams to fill up additional Step 5/6 divisions. LOL!
=============================================
What does the Essex Senior League have? 21 teams at Step 5, no Step 6 league and one Step 7 league with 13 teams!

What do the glorified Sussex and Kent League have?
These glorified county leagues still manage to sustain 77 Step 5 and 6 clubs. Can Yorkshire do that?


There’s a sniff of Catch 22 about your argument. The NWC and NCE shouldn't have extra Step 5 leagues because they only have 45 Step 5 teams. Do you not see how ridiculous that argument is? Try asking yourself why they only have 45 Step 5 teams (clue because there are only 44 (sic) Step 5 places allocated to them.
===========================
Kent (SCE) Step 5 20 teams, Step 6 19 teams, Step 7 1 division
Sussex (S Comb) Step 5 20 teams, Step 6 18 teams, Step 7 1 division.
Two divisions actually - Mid Sussex and SCL Div Two

So Kent/Sussex/Essex have 61 Step 5, 37 Step 6 and 3 Step 7 divisions. NWC/NCE have 45 Step 5, 66 (Soon to rise) Step 6 and 15-16 Step 7 divisions ...... and you claim there aren't enough clubs in the NWC/NCE footprints to justify additional Step 5 leagues. LOL!!!!
============================
The north is being ripped off.
Paul - do me a favour as I'm tired of going over old ground - just note down some teams that you think could form a new Step 5 and 6 league anywhere in the area covered by the 4 most northerly counties, the four Yorkshires and North Lincolnshire. Find me 40 clubs anywhere in that area, not already playing at Step 5 and 6, that could be brought up to form a new Step 5 and 6. I'm not being awkward, I am genuinely curious who they could be!



I'm not sure what your point is about the 4 most northerly counties. I'm discussing the footprint of the NWC
not just Cumbria but Lancashire, Greater Manchester, Merseyside, Cheshire, NW Derbyshire, Staffordshire and Shropshire (and a bit of W Yorkshire)

and the NCE - North Yorks, W Yorks, S Yorks, E Riding, most of Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, Lincolnshire.

Viable leagues would require 20 Step 5 and 20 Step 6 teams (though southern leagues seem to get away with fewer, or even none)

So doubling up on the current provision would mean 40 Step 5 and 40 Step 6 teams in both the NWC and NCE.

In the NWC we have 23 Step 5, 22 Step 6 with 20 applicants - 65. Are you saying it would not be possible to find 15 additional clubs from the West Lancs, Liverpool, Cheshire, Manchester, West Cheshire, Staffordshire (and even Wearside League)?

Just two per league.

In the NCE footprint there are 22 Step 5 and 44 Step 6. 14 teams would be required from N Riding, Humber, York, West Yorks, Central Midlands N ,Central Midlands S, Lincs League , Sheffield & Hallam, Notts , West Riding, York

Not much more than one per league.


The whole central part of your argument, that the clubs aren't there, is a fallacious one.



shimtoan
First Team Regular


Mar 11, 2018, 10:24 AM

Posts: 1379
Location: Dunkirk, Nottingham
Team(s): Dunkirk

Post #219 of 744 (7812 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

has the 3-5 year grace period for SCEL D1 to get their grounds up to Step 6 standard sides finished yet?

From what I've read elsewhere on this forum, many grounds in the South don't actually meet the grading criteria, but relegating them would leave leagues shy by such a great number they'd have to close as there aren't enough clubs with the facilities to replace them.

As for 40 clubs for a Step 5/6 Yorkshire League, we'd be closing the NCEL and creating a Step 5 East Midlands League and a Step 5/6 Yorkshire.

So, the 34 Yorkshire & Humber clubs currently in the NCEL, and the 4 of this years promotion applicants from Step 7 would make 38.

A 20/18 split would be absolutely fine. I'm not sure why you need this magic 20, which doesn't fully exist down South at Step 6.

At Step 6
CCL - 18
ECL - 21
HEL - 14/16
SCO - 18
SWP - 20
SCE - 19
SSM - 21
WSX - 21
WES - 22

So, 10 divisions and only half of them manage to hit 20, whereas in the North and Midlands all 7 have a minimum of 20, 4 of which have 22



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation

(This post was edited by shimtoan on Mar 11, 2018, 10:27 AM)


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Mar 11, 2018, 10:32 AM

Posts: 11894
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley

Post #220 of 744 (7803 views)
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Re: [shimtoan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
has the 3-5 year grace period for SCEL D1 to get their grounds up to Step 6 standard sides finished yet?

From what I've read elsewhere on this forum, many grounds in the South don't actually meet the grading criteria, but relegating them would leave leagues shy by such a great number they'd have to close as there aren't enough clubs with the facilities to replace them.

As for 40 clubs for a Step 5/6 Yorkshire League, we'd be closing the NCEL and creating a Step 5 East Midlands League and a Step 5/6 Yorkshire.

So, the 34 Yorkshire & Humber clubs currently in the NCEL, and the 4 of this years promotion applicants from Step 7 would make 38.

A 20/18 split would be absolutely fine. I'm not sure why you need this magic 20, which doesn't fully exist down South at Step 6.

At Step 6
CCL - 18
ECL - 21
HEL - 14/16
SCO - 18
SWP - 20
SCE - 19
SSM - 21
WSX - 21
WES - 22

In Reply To

Don't forget ESX - 0




In Reply To
So, 10 divisions and only half of them manage to hit 20, whereas in the North and Midlands all 7 have a minimum of 20, 4 of which have 22


I think it's because there aren't enough clubs in the north. Smile


(This post was edited by PaulC on Mar 11, 2018, 10:35 AM)


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Mar 11, 2018, 10:52 AM

Posts: 10552
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #221 of 744 (7775 views)
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Re: [shimtoan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The ESL1 will be getting a 3 years grace, the NWCL will give their applicants until the 30 April to complete all extra ground grading developments! I’m sure if all northern/Midlands step 7 clubs were given 3 years to get up to scratch. Then the F.A. would definitely be able create two more step 5 leagues. Because there must surely be enough F graded grounds across the region.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


Kentishexile
Junior Team Sub

Mar 11, 2018, 9:08 PM

Posts: 27
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Post #222 of 744 (7174 views)
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The step 1 map says it all...a big gap between north and south with nothing in between. ..I'd love to see league 2 and national split three ways


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Mar 11, 2018, 9:27 PM

Posts: 11894
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley

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In Reply To
The step 1 map says it all...a big gap between north and south with nothing in between. ..I'd love to see league 2 and national split three ways


Yes, it is a remarkable distribution of teams, with 10 within a stone's throw of London.


Karen Browne
First Team Sub


Mar 11, 2018, 10:13 PM

Posts: 1021
Location: Pocklington, East Yorkshire
Team(s): Welwyn Garden City

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In Reply To

In Reply To
has the 3-5 year grace period for SCEL D1 to get their grounds up to Step 6 standard sides finished yet?

From what I've read elsewhere on this forum, many grounds in the South don't actually meet the grading criteria, but relegating them would leave leagues shy by such a great number they'd have to close as there aren't enough clubs with the facilities to replace them.

As for 40 clubs for a Step 5/6 Yorkshire League, we'd be closing the NCEL and creating a Step 5 East Midlands League and a Step 5/6 Yorkshire.

So, the 34 Yorkshire & Humber clubs currently in the NCEL, and the 4 of this years promotion applicants from Step 7 would make 38.

A 20/18 split would be absolutely fine. I'm not sure why you need this magic 20, which doesn't fully exist down South at Step 6.

At Step 6
CCL - 18
ECL - 21
HEL - 14/16
SCO - 18
SWP - 20
SCE - 19
SSM - 21
WSX - 21
WES - 22

In Reply To

Don't forget ESX - 0




In Reply To
So, 10 divisions and only half of them manage to hit 20, whereas in the North and Midlands all 7 have a minimum of 20, 4 of which have 22


I think it's because there aren't enough clubs in the north. Smile



The Spartan South Midlands League Division One (Step 6) only has twenty clubs and not 21 as you state



Karen Browne
Spartan South Midlands League
Fixtures Officer


oftenscore6
Chelsea Transfer Target

Mar 12, 2018, 1:01 PM

Posts: 5264
Location: Saddleworth
Team(s): FCUM, MUFC, Hammarby, St Pauli, Hawthorn (AFL)

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Re: [PaulC] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Of course, we wouldn't have to worry particularly about the number of teams in each area if the teams weren't pooled when promoted / relegated. If you fix the boundaries, then if the North want a different number of step 5 divisions to the south, they can do that without any impact there. Currently the direct consequence of a Northern League team not wanting promotion can be another Southern team promoted or reprieved, with a resulting need to transfer teams, and hence southern drift... Unless something is done about this, the new Midland league will gradually shift southward too.



-----------------------------------------------
Last new football ground (968) Dusseldorfer Strasse DSV 1900 1-4 DJK Blau Weiss Mintard
With FC United: 136
On the agenda:
4/12 Hamburg II v Luneburg Hansa
7/12 Fc United v Matlock Town


Terrierdave
Youth Team Star

Mar 12, 2018, 1:51 PM

Posts: 366
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne (previously Bedlington)
Team(s): Nottingham Forest, Bedlington Terriers

Post #226 of 744 (9723 views)
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Re: [oftenscore6] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Of course, we wouldn't have to worry particularly about the number of teams in each area if the teams weren't pooled when promoted / relegated. If you fix the boundaries, then if the North want a different number of step 5 divisions to the south, they can do that without any impact there. Currently the direct consequence of a Northern League team not wanting promotion can be another Southern team promoted or reprieved, with a resulting need to transfer teams, and hence southern drift... Unless something is done about this, the new Midland league will gradually shift southward too.



Something has been done - mandatory promotion


(This post was edited by Terrierdave on Mar 12, 2018, 1:52 PM)


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Mar 14, 2018, 2:51 PM

Posts: 10552
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #227 of 744 (9135 views)
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Re: [Terrierdave] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Boro Rangers joint tenancy agreement at Thornaby has fallen through & also there chance of promotion



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


TomRoystonCrow
Youth Team Sub

Mar 19, 2018, 3:33 PM

Posts: 125
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Post #228 of 744 (8349 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

North Ferriby might drop down to Step 5 or 6 by leaving North Ferriby and moving to Dene Park north of Hull.


wazzafan
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Mar 20, 2018, 7:29 AM

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Re: [TomRoystonCrow] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or

So there's North Ferriby, Lowestoft, Thurrock & Dorking Wanderers all in danger of dropping down from Step 3 & above.


Mister TwoU
First Team Star


Mar 20, 2018, 4:37 PM

Posts: 2498
Location: Back in hilly Malvern.
Team(s): Malvern Town FC

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In Reply To
So there's North Ferriby, Lowestoft, Thurrock & Dorking Wanderers all in danger of dropping down from Step 3 & above.



Yeah, your Step 5 2nd Place PPG Table may soon need extending to take in a few 3rd places!



Professional cretin.


Sarumio
Man City Transfer Target!

Mar 20, 2018, 7:08 PM

Posts: 6329
Location: Ilminster
Team(s): Salisbury

Post #231 of 744 (7382 views)
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Re: [Mister TwoU] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Right I know these are only projections but if certain elements of it come to fruition I give up.
Firstly Cove CANNOT be relegated from the Combined Counties Division One - Staines Lammas are first in line for any relegation from that division at present. I suggest this is changed.
And seriously....how can the FA justify relegating Step 6 stalwarts like Warminster Town, Arnold Town, Dudley Town, Retford United and Stafford Town to Step 7 (most after just one bad season - none of these are exactly perennial strugglers), and in the same exercise promote clubs like Rayleigh Town, Benfleet, White Ensign and Frenford!?
Clubs with proud histories, proper grounds, actual fanbases and/or proper supporters, representing their town...proper community clubs...travelling down the elevator, passing utter riff raff from Step 7 and beyond, travelling in the opposite direction.
If this comes to pass, my heart will sink!!


wazzafan
First Team Sub

Mar 20, 2018, 7:52 PM

Posts: 980
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Post #232 of 744 (7321 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or

Agreed with Cove. They'll stay up no problem I'm sure, however I'm actually being vigilent and just giving all those clubs who I currently have in red ink (not having step 6 grading) the chance of achieving it by 31st March. I realise teams such as Chard & Worcester Park to name two, aren't gonna get it. I believe the loophole of 'dual registration' at council owned grounds could be utilised by many looking to groundshare just to stay at step 6.

Couldn't agree more with the Essex unflux of promotions as well. I'd much rather see more relegations from Step 5 and sideways transfers from the ECL & SSML at Step 6, but alas, it doesn't seem to be happening.


shimtoan
First Team Regular


Mar 20, 2018, 11:45 PM

Posts: 1379
Location: Dunkirk, Nottingham
Team(s): Dunkirk

Post #233 of 744 (7112 views)
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In Reply To
...
And seriously....how can the FA justify relegating Step 6 stalwarts like Warminster Town, Arnold Town, Dudley Town, Retford United and Stafford Town to Step 7 (most after just one bad season - none of these are exactly perennial strugglers), and in the same exercise promote clubs like Rayleigh Town, Benfleet, White Ensign and Frenford!?
Clubs with proud histories, proper grounds, actual fanbases and/or proper supporters, representing their town...proper community clubs...travelling down the elevator, passing utter riff raff from Step 7 and beyond, travelling in the opposite direction.
If this comes to pass, my heart will sink!!

If you finish at the bottom you go down, if you finish at the top you go up.

It only takes one good season or one bad season. Otherwise Leicester City would've been denied the Premier League title the other year because they hadn't challenged for it in the years before, and York City wouldn't have been relegated to National North because of their decades as a Football League club.

We could then go on to life in general...



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Mar 21, 2018, 5:16 AM

Posts: 10552
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #234 of 744 (7017 views)
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Re: [shimtoan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
...
And seriously....how can the FA justify relegating Step 6 stalwarts like Warminster Town, Arnold Town, Dudley Town, Retford United and Stafford Town to Step 7 (most after just one bad season - none of these are exactly perennial strugglers), and in the same exercise promote clubs like Rayleigh Town, Benfleet, White Ensign and Frenford!?
Clubs with proud histories, proper grounds, actual fanbases and/or proper supporters, representing their town...proper community clubs...travelling down the elevator, passing utter riff raff from Step 7 and beyond, travelling in the opposite direction.
If this comes to pass, my heart will sink!!

If you finish at the bottom you go down, if you finish at the top you go up.

It only takes one good season or one bad season. Otherwise Leicester City would've been denied the Premier League title the other year because they hadn't challenged for it in the years before, and York City wouldn't have been relegated to National North because of their decades as a Football League club.

We could then go on to life in general...



Different regions of the country have different issues & different solutions. There’s no point going over again, what the East Midlands solution should be. But hopefully that’ be sorted in the future.
As for Dunkirk, I’ve got a sneaky feeling about your clubs season.......Wink



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


TrevorT
Youth Team Regular

Mar 21, 2018, 6:41 AM

Posts: 255
Location: Essex
Team(s):

Post #235 of 744 (6986 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Right I know these are only projections but if certain elements of it come to fruition I give up.
Firstly Cove CANNOT be relegated from the Combined Counties Division One - Staines Lammas are first in line for any relegation from that division at present. I suggest this is changed.
And seriously....how can the FA justify relegating Step 6 stalwarts like Warminster Town, Arnold Town, Dudley Town, Retford United and Stafford Town to Step 7 (most after just one bad season - none of these are exactly perennial strugglers), and in the same exercise promote clubs like Rayleigh Town, Benfleet, White Ensign and Frenford!?
Clubs with proud histories, proper grounds, actual fanbases and/or proper supporters, representing their town...proper community clubs...travelling down the elevator, passing utter riff raff from Step 7 and beyond, travelling in the opposite direction.
If this comes to pass, my heart will sink!!

I don’t know anyone from Salisbury as I suspect you dot know anyone connected with Frenford or White Ensign, but I wouldn’t use the words riff raff to describe people from Salisbury.

Anyway are you saying we should keep Tytherington Rocks at Step 6 next year based on their 80 odd year history and their 14 odd years in the Hellenic and not promote Frenford or White Ensign who are top of the step 7 division they will play in?


shimtoan
First Team Regular


Mar 21, 2018, 8:18 AM

Posts: 1379
Location: Dunkirk, Nottingham
Team(s): Dunkirk

Post #236 of 744 (6919 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
...
And seriously....how can the FA justify relegating Step 6 stalwarts like Warminster Town, Arnold Town, Dudley Town, Retford United and Stafford Town to Step 7 (most after just one bad season - none of these are exactly perennial strugglers), and in the same exercise promote clubs like Rayleigh Town, Benfleet, White Ensign and Frenford!?
Clubs with proud histories, proper grounds, actual fanbases and/or proper supporters, representing their town...proper community clubs...travelling down the elevator, passing utter riff raff from Step 7 and beyond, travelling in the opposite direction.
If this comes to pass, my heart will sink!!

If you finish at the bottom you go down, if you finish at the top you go up.

It only takes one good season or one bad season. Otherwise Leicester City would've been denied the Premier League title the other year because they hadn't challenged for it in the years before, and York City wouldn't have been relegated to National North because of their decades as a Football League club.

We could then go on to life in general...



Different regions of the country have different issues & different solutions. There’s no point going over again, what the East Midlands solution should be. But hopefully that’ be sorted in the future.
As for Dunkirk, I’ve got a sneaky feeling about your clubs season.......Wink

Not quite 2/3 through the season yet, and we've still got to play the 3 ahead of us, 2 of them scheduled for next week.

I don't quite understand why the East Midlands is such an odd area. We're at the meeting point of 3 Step 5s, clubs in 4 leagues at Step 6, predicted 2 leagues at both of Steps 3 and 4 next season, and clubs in at least 8 Step 7 divisions.

As for the future of football in the East Midlands, who knows? We seemingly get overlooked for everything. Well, something happened 10 years ago, but not much for 20-odd years before that, and nothing really since



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation


Sarumio
Man City Transfer Target!

Mar 21, 2018, 9:59 AM

Posts: 6329
Location: Ilminster
Team(s): Salisbury

Post #237 of 744 (6809 views)
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Re: [TrevorT] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Right I know these are only projections but if certain elements of it come to fruition I give up.
Firstly Cove CANNOT be relegated from the Combined Counties Division One - Staines Lammas are first in line for any relegation from that division at present. I suggest this is changed.
And seriously....how can the FA justify relegating Step 6 stalwarts like Warminster Town, Arnold Town, Dudley Town, Retford United and Stafford Town to Step 7 (most after just one bad season - none of these are exactly perennial strugglers), and in the same exercise promote clubs like Rayleigh Town, Benfleet, White Ensign and Frenford!?
Clubs with proud histories, proper grounds, actual fanbases and/or proper supporters, representing their town...proper community clubs...travelling down the elevator, passing utter riff raff from Step 7 and beyond, travelling in the opposite direction.
If this comes to pass, my heart will sink!!

I don’t know anyone from Salisbury as I suspect you dot know anyone connected with Frenford or White Ensign, but I wouldn’t use the words riff raff to describe people from Salisbury.

Anyway are you saying we should keep Tytherington Rocks at Step 6 next year based on their 80 odd year history and their 14 odd years in the Hellenic and not promote Frenford or White Ensign who are top of the step 7 division they will play in?


They are riff raff in my opinion compared to the clubs I have mentioned.

Tytherington Rocks? No they should go down - they don't have the grading to play at Step 6.

All clubs that have the grading to play at Step 6 should remain at Step 6 until Step 6 is full.

Frenford and White Ensign (and certainly Rayleigh and Benfleet) are being cherry picked based solely on the area they play in. So no they should not be promoted. They don't meet the grade and are being promoted out of sheer desperation, not due to their suitability on or off the pitch!


Tim
Man City Transfer Target!


Mar 21, 2018, 10:07 AM

Posts: 8364
Location: Stourbridge, Charmouth
Team(s): Stourbridge, Welton Rovers

Post #238 of 744 (6795 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Why don't Tytherington Rocks have the grading to play at Step 6? Smashing ground, can't imagine what's wrong with it, unless they need a 500 seater, 10 turnstiles and a hotel for the ref to stay in.

The Dudley Town revival is underway - unbeaten in three games, 5 points in the bag and all to play for. The only thing that will stop them is the badgers.


Sarumio
Man City Transfer Target!

Mar 21, 2018, 1:37 PM

Posts: 6329
Location: Ilminster
Team(s): Salisbury

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Re: [Tim] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Regardless of Tytherington's ground - they are bottom of their division and have NO points.


Others are saying the likes of Warminster and Retford deserve to go down as they (will) have finished bottom of their division - yet don't seem to extend that philosophy to the likes of Tytherington, Milton United and Needham Market Reserves, just because of their location!!!


WazaaFan's predictions show 6 divisions with 18 teams, instead of 20.
I am slightly uneasy about some of the moves he is suggesting.
Point in case
21st placed Brigg Town are showing as reprieved, yet their 2nd-bottom counterparts in other Midlands-area leagues (Dudley, Stafford and Arnold) are all being relegated.
Brigg are being reprieved on the basis that other NCEL clubs are being shunted over to the EMCL. Those clubs are causing Arnold's relegation as well as causing clubs to be moved to the ML1. In turn those transferees are preventing a reprieve for Stafford Town in ML1 and shunting clubs into the WMRL. These shunted clubs are resulting in the relegations of Dudley Town and Wellington Amateurs, who due to the mini-exodus of up to 5 clubs from their division to the Hellenic League, may have expected to be reprieved.


How would Dudley Town feel if they knew their relegation (and their not being handed a reprieve) was actually as a direct result of Brigg Town many miles away being given the reprieve instead, with a worse record and a worse PPG than Dudley?


So I have to ask - why do Brigg get reprieved over Arnold, Stafford Town and Dudley Town?


The point I am making is - The Hellenic has 4 vacancies. The NWCL D1s have 4 vacancies. The Midlands region in Wazza's predictions is relegating up to 8 clubs? The Hellenic borders the most leagues in the country (Western, Wessex, CoCo, SSML, UCL, Midland and WMRL). Its a relatively empty void in the middle of 7 leagues bursting at the seems. Shunting 4 more border clubs from these 7 divisions and filling them with 20 would result in less clubs being relegated in the Midlands.


Move Oswestry back to the NWCL and you open up another reprieve in the Midlands.
Just options I guess...I just don't like the idea of geographical bias reprieves and geographically-inspired relegations.


Tim
Man City Transfer Target!


Mar 21, 2018, 1:49 PM

Posts: 8364
Location: Stourbridge, Charmouth
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

So do you actually know if Tytherington have the grading or not?
You said above that they haven't got the grading. I know they haven't got any points. That isn't the reason you gave above for them being relegated.


Sarumio
Man City Transfer Target!

Mar 21, 2018, 2:07 PM

Posts: 6329
Location: Ilminster
Team(s): Salisbury

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Re: [Tim] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
So do you actually know if Tytherington have the grading or not?
You said above that they haven't got the grading. I know they haven't got any points. That isn't the reason you gave above for them being relegated.


Its almost irrelevant as to whether they have the grading or not.

My point is if they don't they should be demoted.
If they have do, but finish bottom of their division with 0 points, they should be relegated to Step 7 BEFORE any relegation is enforced upon Warminster, Stafford, Dudley Town etc.


Tim
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Mar 21, 2018, 2:25 PM

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Post #242 of 744 (6518 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

So you don't know whether or not they have the grading.


paulh66
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Mar 21, 2018, 4:32 PM

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Post #243 of 744 (6344 views)
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Re: [Tim] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

When the FA released the allocation of clubs at steps 5 and 6 for this season they highlighted in red those clubs which didn't have the required grading at that time. Tytherington were not amongst those clubs. There's a copy of that document on here somewhere.


LoyalRed
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Mar 21, 2018, 4:40 PM

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Post #244 of 744 (6326 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Tytherington Rocks is a nice ground, I am pretty sure they have the correct ground grading for Step 6. Hence why they are showing on Wazzafan’s spreadsheet for Step 6 next season as they would again be reprieved despite finishing with zero points.

Their issue I believe is basically being located in Bristol, but playing in the Hellenic League, which is why they struggle to attract players and have asked for a lateral transfer to the Western League.


Sarumio
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Mar 21, 2018, 6:51 PM

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Post #245 of 744 (6155 views)
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Re: [Tim] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
So you don't know whether or not they have the grading.


Well I do now. But as I said it does not matter! And they should not be reprieved ahead of better clubs just because the league they play in is low on numbers. Lateral transfers look set to happen all over the country and so lateral transfers should save these better clubs before Tytherington are considered for a reprieve.

Just my opinion!


wazzafan
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Post #246 of 744 (5620 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or

I respect your opinions Sarumio. Your reasoning for Brigg being reprieved instead of ohers from the Midlands is very logical and a poor oversight by myself. I'll look at it in my next update.


Sarumio
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Post #247 of 744 (5142 views)
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I respect your opinions Sarumio. Your reasoning for Brigg being reprieved instead of ohers from the Midlands is very logical and a poor oversight by myself. I'll look at it in my next update.


Hi wazza!

Few questions as I see your projections have been changed - quite drastically in the last 24 hours.

1. Is is now deemed "probable" (rather than just an idea/suggestion) that the Hellenic Step 6 divisions will combine into one division?

2. Will Blaby & Whetstone Athletic's recent resignation reprieve Arnold Town in your eyes? Or will Oakham United gain from this resignation in your projections - as they are currently down as being relegated from the division you had B&WA placed in?

3. Chalvey / Abingdon - Chalvey are appearing in the list of Step 7 and others promotee list - yet Abingdon Town are in the projections.

5. You've now moved Wokingham & Emmbrook to CoCo1. W&E do not have the grade or floodlights - so surely cannot move to CoCo1 in place of Farleigh Rovers/Sheerwater. All must be treated the same no?

6. Whilst on the subject of grading. You've left Worcester Park and Staines Lammas at Step 6 (whilst demoting every other club in the country without floodlights, barring Wokingham as mentioned above) – surely all three of these must be demoted as well – reprieving Dudley Sports, Stafford Town and whichever one of Oakham and Arnold don’t gain from B&WA’s demise?

Like to keep you on your toes!


wazzafan
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Post #248 of 744 (5110 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or

Yes I had quite a session last night editing the spreadsheet. i'll attempt to answer your questions:

1. I honestly believe one Hellenic League will happen now. Again, just a prediction, but with the current number of clubs not having the grade, and not looking like they're gonna get it, it appears more and more likely.

2. I think Arnold Town would keep there place, B&WA would be deemed bottom and Radcliffe Olympic would jump above them. Arnold would technically no longer be in a relegation place.

3. Whoop! Sorry! I was bound to forget something. Changed now. I've not seen anything on Chalvey to say they have Floodlights/grading or a groundshare. I've therefore promoted Abingdon Town instead.

5. Wokingham & Emmbrook I believe got planning permission two years ago for a Stand & Floodlights. How far they are down the line I don't know, but merely having the plannng permission could easily mean they retain there place. Penn & Tylers Green have just had there application denyed. The teams I've left in red writing all have lights or planning for lights I'm lead to believe.

6. This is the tricky one on the spreadsheet. Your correct in saying all 4 current CCL sides not with the grading should go down. The same can be said for the sea of clubs in the SCEL One. Most of them probably won't get the grade and be demoted. I guess I just wanted 20 in each league but these two in particular could go to 18.

Keep my toes warm! (P.S. was there a point 4?)


(This post was edited by wazzafan on Mar 23, 2018, 10:17 AM)


Tim
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Post #249 of 744 (5103 views)
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Chalvey Sports have been groundsharing at Slough Town since the start of the season.


wazzafan
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Post #250 of 744 (5099 views)
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Re: [Tim] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or

Oh. Blush


Unicorn
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Post #251 of 744 (8572 views)
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Not sure it will be a sea of clubs in the SCE Div One.
This area is notorious for lack of information and if you go to a ground your self its impossible to judge any more than the obvious things.
But the nearest that i can get to an answer from talking to people is that one will without doubt fail and another three are serious doubts. The other six rightly or wrongly put up for execution have probably passed.


Sarumio
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Post #252 of 744 (8494 views)
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Yes I had quite a session last night editing the spreadsheet. i'll attempt to answer your questions:

1. I honestly believe one Hellenic League will happen now. Again, just a prediction, but with the current number of clubs not having the grade, and not looking like they're gonna get it, it appears more and more likely.

2. I think Arnold Town would keep there place, B&WA would be deemed bottom and Radcliffe Olympic would jump above them. Arnold would technically no longer be in a relegation place.

3. Whoop! Sorry! I was bound to forget something. Changed now. I've not seen anything on Chalvey to say they have Floodlights/grading or a groundshare. I've therefore promoted Abingdon Town instead.

5. Wokingham & Emmbrook I believe got planning permission two years ago for a Stand & Floodlights. How far they are down the line I don't know, but merely having the plannng permission could easily mean they retain there place. Penn & Tylers Green have just had there application denyed. The teams I've left in red writing all have lights or planning for lights I'm lead to believe.

6. This is the tricky one on the spreadsheet. Your correct in saying all 4 current CCL sides not with the grading should go down. The same can be said for the sea of clubs in the SCEL One. Most of them probably won't get the grade and be demoted. I guess I just wanted 20 in each league but these two in particular could go to 18.

Keep my toes warm! (P.S. was there a point 4?)


OK thanks for responding Wazza. Dunno – I obviously don’t like 4s.

My only issue with the current predictions is the Western/Hellenic/CoCo/ movements and reprieves

1. Bishop’s Lydeard to the SWPL – it looks wrong. Very wrong. More wrong when someone would have to explain to them that the only reason for their transfer is to make way in the Western Div One for a Hellenic-territory club with 0 points. Is it not better to leave Witheridge and BL in situ. And relegate……Tytherington? The worst performing team at Step 6 in the entire country!

2. Hellenic Division One footprint. Holyport and Tadley in the same division as Cheltenham Saracens and Newent Town. It looks hideous. Could you not move Holyport and Tadley to the CoCo1, and demote WP and Staines Lammas. And maybe move Thame Rangers to the SSML (demoting St Neots Res in their place). Then transfer the 3 most southerly clubs in the Midlands (HLC, Pegasus and Littleton/Pershore) to the Hellenic, reprieving clubs that actually have the grade and some points (Stafford Town, Dudley Sports, Brigg).

I like the look of the rest of the divisions though Cool


swjoduk
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Mar 23, 2018, 1:01 PM

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Post #253 of 744 (8449 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Unless things change I don't believe the SWPL would allow Somerset or Dorset for that matter clubs in to their league. I believe their constitution only allows for Devon and Cornwall clubs.

I don't believe Lydeard would be interested in travelling to Cornwall instead of West Wilts
I expect Sherborne and Wincanton would prefer to stay in the Western League with decent road links to Bristol and West Wilts


(This post was edited by swjoduk on Mar 23, 2018, 1:04 PM)


Sarumio
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Post #254 of 744 (8348 views)
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Re: [swjoduk] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I don't think the SWPL can refuse to take them, if that's what the FA decided. FA allocate clubs, not the leagues.

I don't think the FA will dictate this though, only Wazzafan is suggesting it at present!

As for Sherborne and Wincanton...they are border clubs between the Wessex and Western. Not everyone can stay playing in the Western League...especially now its numbers will be reduced to 40.

Saying that I'd say its more likely Pewsey Vale and Warminster Town (who are both ex-Wessex) will move to the Wessex, and Sherborne and Wincanton will remain where they are.


derekn
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Mar 23, 2018, 3:19 PM

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Post #255 of 744 (8237 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
As for Sherborne and Wincanton...they are border clubs between the Wessex and Western. Not everyone can stay playing in the Western League...especially now its numbers will be reduced to 40.

Saying that I'd say its more likely Pewsey Vale and Warminster Town (who are both ex-Wessex) will move to the Wessex, and Sherborne and Wincanton will remain where they are.


Wincanton & Sherborne are 33 and 42 miles west of their nearest Wessex League opponents.


(This post was edited by derekn on Mar 23, 2018, 3:20 PM)


Sarumio
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Post #256 of 744 (8187 views)
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Re: [derekn] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
As for Sherborne and Wincanton...they are border clubs between the Wessex and Western. Not everyone can stay playing in the Western League...especially now its numbers will be reduced to 40.

Saying that I'd say its more likely Pewsey Vale and Warminster Town (who are both ex-Wessex) will move to the Wessex, and Sherborne and Wincanton will remain where they are.


Wincanton & Sherborne are 33 and 42 miles west of their nearest Wessex League opponents.


Yes - but if you have 42 clubs vying for 40 places - it doesn't matter how many miles separate them from their nearest Wessex opponents - if they are the closest Western League clubs to said Wessex opponents - they will be moved!

As I said though - Pewsey/Warminster is more likely.


Dudley_BTFC
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Post #257 of 744 (8146 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Hearing that Penn & Tylers may ground share at Flackwell Heath next season.

Would enable them to continue at step 6.

Sadly you cannot ground share as a means to earn promotion so despite possibly winning Division One East three years in a row, P&T wouldn't be allowed up.

Duds


TomRoystonCrow
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Post #258 of 744 (7562 views)
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Do you think Hitchin will go into the Isthmian League even if the chairman of the Southern League is chairman of Hitchin Town he probably wants us and Royston in that Southern Midland Division but it's down to the other clubs as Kings Lynn and Kettering could stay at Step 3 and Cambridge City and Dereham winning their play offs and promotion to Step 3.


Unicorn
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Post #259 of 744 (7439 views)
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

So what does everyone think will happen.
It seems if the FALC continue with the hard line on non compliant clubs some divisions could be decimated.
So do people think they will go ahead with it and deal with the expected chaos.
Or will they pull back from the brink at the last moment.


(This post was edited by Unicorn on Mar 25, 2018, 8:01 AM)


wazzafan
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Post #260 of 744 (7409 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or

I just really want them to show complete transparency and either demotion all at once or none at all. If they selectively demote all the Hellenic clubs for example, but not any SCEL One clubs for example, I unfortunately wouldn't be surprised.


Unicorn
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Post #261 of 744 (7371 views)
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Totally agree.
There is a case for leniency in the new Eastern Senior League because those clubs have not yet had a period of grace.
But the SCE Div one sides have now had seven seasons since the Kent Invicta League was set up with four seasons grace.
Anywhere else in the country they have had even longer.

If the FALC want all step 5 divisions backed up by a step 6 with a broadly similar foot print they are going to have to accept that they cannot all be fully compliant.


Unicorn
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Post #262 of 744 (7358 views)
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

There is also the rule that you cannot avoid relegation or secure promotion but agreeing a ground share.
I think that may well be overruled by the FALC this spring to help the situation.


keneastlancs
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Mar 25, 2018, 9:49 AM

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Post #263 of 744 (7336 views)
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

On your projections why are you showing Burscough as reprieved? the NWCL prem are relegating 4 teams (which you show) and promoting 3 from division 1 (which you show) this is because of 1 excess club. The 5th bottom club was never going to be relegated so does not need to show as reprieved.


The Major
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British Airways [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Folks have British Airways declined promotion from the Middx League..If it has been answered before sorry i have been away.


Mike


windydcfc
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Mar 25, 2018, 11:40 AM

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Post #265 of 744 (7225 views)
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Re: [The Major] British Airways [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Folks have British Airways declined promotion from the Middx League..If it has been answered before sorry i have been away.


Mike



They’d only be offered a promotion place sometime late May & only then can they decline promotion. Unless they’ve withdrawn there promotion application already.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


wazzafan
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Post #266 of 744 (7037 views)
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Re: [keneastlancs] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or

All correct Ken. The 5th reprieve comes because had a team been relegated from Step 4 into the NWCFL (looking unlikely now) then a 5th team would have needed to be relegated.


keneastlancs
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Mar 25, 2018, 4:41 PM

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Post #267 of 744 (6926 views)
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

oh yes forgot relagation from above as they were reducing numbers remembered about the 2 going up but forgot the possibility of one down - thanks for answer.


windydcfc
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Mar 25, 2018, 5:01 PM

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Post #268 of 744 (6900 views)
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I think because of there location, Wem Town will be placed in the same step 6 league as Oswestry, Whitchurch & Ellesmere!



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


AlanC
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Post #269 of 744 (6192 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] British Airways [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

British Airways have not withdrawn their application for promotion (as far as I know). They are moving from Ashford Town (Mx) to Bedfont & Feltham next season. Ashford have signed a ground share agreement with Southall FC for 2018-2019 with an ongoing option.


HarryC
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Post #270 of 744 (5235 views)
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Assume Shortwood's resignation from Southern League will see them allocated the bottom position for relegation to save Bishops Cleeve from the drop


derekn
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Post #271 of 744 (5194 views)
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Re: [HarryC] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I really don't believe you can assume that. FA stated that all bottom place teams will be relegated. Unless the SL make up a spurious points deduction, there's no way Shortwood will finish bottom.


TomRoystonCrow
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Post #272 of 744 (5134 views)
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Re: [wazzafan] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Why are Thurrock missing on the projections?


Herb Alpert
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Post #273 of 744 (5049 views)
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Re: [TomRoystonCrow] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Thurrock are disbanding at the end of the season. The owner is giving up for health reasons and there are no buyers for the club. Shame really, nice club and nice ground.


TomRoystonCrow
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Re: [Herb Alpert] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I thought they were gonna wait till 31st March for a new owner to come in and save the club I can't see it happening now. Yes it's a lovely ground went there with Royston in the FA Cup Preliminary Round in the 2015/16 season.


(This post was edited by TomRoystonCrow on Mar 28, 2018, 5:15 PM)


petermiller36
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Mar 28, 2018, 4:30 PM

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Post #275 of 744 (5004 views)
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Re: [derekn] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I really don't believe you can assume that. FA stated that all bottom place teams will be relegated. Unless the SL make up a spurious points deduction, there's no way Shortwood will finish bottom.


In previous seasons (and I can’t see anything in the rules that states it’s different now), a side resigning before the end of the season effectively gets classed as the bottom side, thus meaning the side in 22nd will finish 21st. This last happened in 2015/2016 with Daventry Town resigning, meaning Tividale would have got a reprieve if one was available for them. As it happened, there wasn’t.



Steps 4-7 Relegation and Promotion document:
http://bit.ly/PPG1819


Unicorn
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Post #276 of 744 (9398 views)
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Re: [petermiller36] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
I really don't believe you can assume that. FA stated that all bottom place teams will be relegated. Unless the SL make up a spurious points deduction, there's no way Shortwood will finish bottom.


In previous seasons (and I can’t see anything in the rules that states it’s different now), a side resigning before the end of the season effectively gets classed as the bottom side, thus meaning the side in 22nd will finish 21st. This last happened in 2015/2016 with Daventry Town resigning, meaning Tividale would have got a reprieve if one was available for them. As it happened, there wasn’t.


As far i know that is still the case.
But with all the changes going on anything could happen.
Rules are a bit meaningless this spring.


windydcfc
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Post #277 of 744 (9315 views)
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Re: [petermiller36] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
I really don't believe you can assume that. FA stated that all bottom place teams will be relegated. Unless the SL make up a spurious points deduction, there's no way Shortwood will finish bottom.


In previous seasons (and I can’t see anything in the rules that states it’s different now), a side resigning before the end of the season effectively gets classed as the bottom side, thus meaning the side in 22nd will finish 21st. This last happened in 2015/2016 with Daventry Town resigning, meaning Tividale would have got a reprieve if one was available for them. As it happened, there wasn’t.



The FA clarified in the Nonleague Paper what will happen & these were also clarified by Matt Edkins. ‘No reprieves for bottom placed clubs’!



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


grandad
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Mar 28, 2018, 6:38 PM

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Post #278 of 744 (9242 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

We all accept that Windy, BUT the issue being raised is who gets classed as bottom! The team that has resigned and is placed at position 22, or the club who finishes the season on the lowest number of points, but who may now be placed 21.



Once a Rebel, Always a Rebel


petermiller36
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Mar 28, 2018, 7:55 PM

Posts: 1113
Location: Nottingham
Team(s): Ware & AFC Wimbledon

Post #279 of 744 (9133 views)
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Re: [grandad] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
We all accept that Windy, BUT the issue being raised is who gets classed as bottom! The team that has resigned and is placed at position 22, or the club who finishes the season on the lowest number of points, but who may now be placed 21.


And that's the problem.

The FA Handbook says:
"12.6 In the event of a Club, not being placed in a relegation position at the end of the season,
wishing to resign from the Competition at the end of the season, or having been removed
from membership under the Articles the number of Clubs to be relegated shall be reduced
accordingly."



Steps 4-7 Relegation and Promotion document:
http://bit.ly/PPG1819


petermiller36
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Mar 28, 2018, 9:35 PM

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Team(s): Ware & AFC Wimbledon

Post #280 of 744 (8983 views)
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Re: [petermiller36] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

But know I think I've changed my mind. They have previously said in the NLP:

"If we’re in a situation where clubs throughout the Pyramid drift out through financial issues, the other two ‘unlucky runners-up’ are most likely to get preferential route in as the back-up two."

So now I've reverted my document back to showing that no bottom clubs get reprieved.



Steps 4-7 Relegation and Promotion document:
http://bit.ly/PPG1819


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Mar 28, 2018, 11:02 PM

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Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #281 of 744 (8848 views)
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Re: [petermiller36] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
But know I think I've changed my mind. They have previously said in the NLP:

"If we’re in a situation where clubs throughout the Pyramid drift out through financial issues, the other two ‘unlucky runners-up’ are most likely to get preferential route in as the back-up two."

So now I've reverted my document back to showing that no bottom clubs get reprieved.



I asked the F.A. what would happen after the 2 unlucky runners up spots are used up. Would they promote the best 3rd places teams? They said it would be down to the league committee to decide, but they want to get away from reprieving the bottom placed clubs. So I assume that would be the case.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


wazzafan
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Mar 29, 2018, 2:42 PM

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Post #282 of 744 (8390 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2018/19 [In reply to] Can't Post or

I think the queston here is after those two clubs extra promotion places are taken. Shortwood are a separate case in that all they want is voluntary relegation. This meaning Step 5 is still getting a club back from Step 4. It's not like the Thurrock/Ossett situation whereby Step 5 won't be getting anyone back.

At present though, with Highworth being the 3rd best placed team at Step 5 on PPG. The Southern West will be gaining a club back from Step 5, if they relegated both Shortwood & Bishops Cleeve. Bishops Cleeve may take voluntary relegaton themselves if they don't fancy being shifted to the new Central league.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Mar 29, 2018, 6:51 PM

Posts: 10552
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

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