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48 team World Cup

 

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Tykeoldboy
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Oct 4, 2016, 4:41 PM

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48 team World Cup Can't Post or Reply Privately

Fifa president Gianni Infantino election promise was to forge ahead with the Blatters expansion of the World Cup, but now he's not wanting a 36 team tournament he wants it to be 48 teams.

This works as follows. 48 teams qualify for the finals. There would be a preliminary round of the lowest ranked 32 teams played in the World Cup hosting nation. The 16 tie winners would progress to the group stages joining the top 16 seeded teams. The competition would continue using the current format from that point.

Reading into this proposal there are issues. Would the 16 seeded teams be the 16 highest ranked qualifiers (including hosts) or would FIFA want to guarantee regional quotas are kept for the group stages?

When would the preliminary round take place? if immediately before the group stage then how would that effect the draw for the groups. If played weeks or months before the group stages then the preliminary just becomes a play off round and not part of the actual finals, which doesn't make it a 48 team tournament, which is what Gianni Infantino is proposing.

We already have a 208 team World Cup, just leave it as it is.


Ropemaker
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Oct 4, 2016, 6:16 PM

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Post #2 of 76 (11274 views)
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Re: [Tykeoldboy] 48 team World Cup [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
When would the preliminary round take place? if immediately before the group stage then how would that effect the draw for the groups. If played weeks or months before the group stages then the preliminary just becomes a play off round and not part of the actual finals, which doesn't make it a 48 team tournament, which is what Gianni Infantino is proposing.

We already have a 208 team World Cup, just leave it as it is.

I presume the preliminary round and groups would be drawn at the same time with each group having two seeds and the winners of two prelim games. So the winners of the prelim games would know which group they'd be in if they got through.

Having teams/supporters at the finals for one game though?



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


Mister TwoU
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Oct 4, 2016, 7:27 PM

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Post #3 of 76 (11262 views)
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Re: [Tykeoldboy] 48 team World Cup [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Will only work if that extra knockout round follows the group stage.



Professional cretin.


leohoenig
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Oct 5, 2016, 7:07 AM

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Re: [Mister TwoU] 48 team World Cup [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Mister TwoU suggestion, I assume means 32 teams qualifying from 48 teams in 12 groups of 4, similar to the Euro format.

Infantino definitely suggested a knock out round, so 32 of 48 teams playing for 16 places and the other 16 teams given byes.

There is a precedent in the late acceptance of the USA into the 1934 World Cup. They beat Mexico 4-2 in Rome, on 24 May 1934. Three days later, USA lost their first round match against Italy 7-1. There were no groups in 1934.

In 1934, Italy's schedule was
27 May (Rome). USA 7-1
31 May (Florence). Spain 1-1 (aet)
1 June (Florence). Spain 1-0
3 June (Milan). Austria 1-0
10 June (Rome). Czechoslovakia 2-1 (aet)

Can't imagine a three game in four day schedule now.

I'd go for a double elimination knock out, but this might take too long before the main hostilities, (12 days in my scenario)

The 32 are divided into four sections of four. Section 1 plays on days 1, 5 and 9, section 2 on 2, 6 and 10. This allows a continuous movement as section 1 winners could play in main draw on the first day, section 4 would have a break before their groups start.

First fixtures
Four matches

Second date
Match A. Winner 1 v Winner 2, Match B. Winner 3 v Winner 4
Match C. Loser 1 v Loser 2. Match D. Loser 3 v Loser 4

Winners of matches A,B through to finals. Losers of matches C and D go home

Third date - winners progress, losers go home.
Loser Match A v Winner Match D
Loser Match B v Winner Match C



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pitch 63
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Oct 5, 2016, 9:53 AM

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Post #5 of 76 (11163 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] 48 team World Cup [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Sorry Leo, that's too logical for FIFA


Mister TwoU
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Re: [leohoenig] 48 team World Cup [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Was actually contemplating eight groups of six, to guarantee all finalists five games. I think expulsion after just three matches as is the current norm is just too brutal.

Four of six would progress to first knockout round.



Professional cretin.


Ropemaker
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Oct 5, 2016, 1:27 PM

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Re: [Mister TwoU] 48 team World Cup [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Isn't this just having playoffs to get to the finals but having them in the host nation just before the finals themselves?

Why not have more intercontinental playoffs instead? I know, would any confederation would give up their slots for these?



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


Ropemaker
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Oct 6, 2016, 1:53 PM

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Post #8 of 76 (10972 views)
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Re: [Ropemaker] 48 team World Cup [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

You could expand it to 42 teams and give everyone two games

40 qualifiers + hosts + holders
Hosts + holders go to group stage
Prelim1 20 ties
20 winners to group stage
Prelim2 10 ties between losers from Prelim1
10 winners to group stage

And we have 32 teams for the group stage! Or even a straight knockout!!

The logistics of who is playing where could be an issue. But FIFA don't seem to care about such trivialities.



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Isaac
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Oct 6, 2016, 6:02 PM

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Post #9 of 76 (10933 views)
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Re: [Ropemaker] 48 team World Cup [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The best analogy I've heard is that it's like throwing a party and inviting your parents, grandparents and various aunts and uncles, the party only starts once they leave!

Ridiculous idea, it was fine with just 16 teams but then greed took overMad!


Tykeoldboy
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Re: [Isaac] 48 team World Cup [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It looks like the 2026 World Cup will be held in the USA (again) or Canada. FIFA have banned both Europe and Asia from bidding for the finals in 2026, the reason given is FIFA's rotation policy, which rules out Europe (2018) and Asia (2022). Since FIFA are looking to expand the finals to 40 or 48 teams then there aren't that many countries left that have the capacity to hold such a large event. FIFA aren't overly keen on joint bids which just leave USA, Canada or Australia., and the latter compete in Asia and not Oceania so that rules out the Aussies.


leohoenig
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Oct 14, 2016, 7:25 PM

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Post #11 of 76 (10566 views)
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Re: [Tykeoldboy] 48 team World Cup [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

There have long been rumours that USA have been promised the 2026 in private; Blatter supposedly expected them to win the bid for 2022. Not certain that Canada is a suitable venue for a big tournament. When Asia gets to bid again, both China and Japan can be expected to compete with Australia for the honour.



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



Ropemaker
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Dec 7, 2016, 10:13 PM

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Post #12 of 76 (9085 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] 48 team World Cup [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Today's format from FIFA for a 48 team WC is for 16 groups of 3.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38243334



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pitch 63
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Dec 7, 2016, 11:05 PM

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Post #13 of 76 (9056 views)
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Re: [Ropemaker] 48 team World Cup [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

What a farce.

If they carry on expanding it like this by 2050 there will be about 250 teams in the finals with "B" teams of the most senior teams.

Leave it as it is after all it is the FINALS which means only the best teams and if the home nations don't qualify so be it.


paulh66
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Dec 7, 2016, 11:10 PM

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Re: [pitch 63] 48 team World Cup [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I was very sceptical when this was first mooted but I think the plan for only two group matches per side then straight into knockout could be a winner. No overbloated schedule, no meaningless group matches, more KO matches and a shot at glory for a few more minnows.


Ropemaker
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Dec 7, 2016, 11:55 PM

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Re: [paulh66] 48 team World Cup [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I was very sceptical when this was first mooted but I think the plan for only two group matches per side then straight into knockout could be a winner. No overbloated schedule, no meaningless group matches, more KO matches and a shot at glory for a few more minnows.

The only problem is the scenario of one team playing their last game against a team already out knowing exactly what score they need to go through.

Presumably the groups would work thus
A v B
C v loser (A v B)
C v winner (A v B)
to avoid dead rubbers

But if A v B is a draw and C then lose to A say then B will play an already eliminated C knowing exactly what is required to progress.

Unless, of course, the top two go through!



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

(This post was edited by Ropemaker on Dec 7, 2016, 11:59 PM)


paulh66
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Dec 8, 2016, 12:06 AM

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Re: [Ropemaker] 48 team World Cup [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I understood the top 2 would go through to a knockout round of 32, rather than just the winners gong through to a round of 16? That's what it said on the radio anyway. In which case no team would be out before the final group game.


mip
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Dec 8, 2016, 12:22 AM

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Post #17 of 76 (9021 views)
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Re: [paulh66] 48 team World Cup [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I understood the top 2 would go through to a knockout round of 32, rather than just the winners gong through to a round of 16? That's what it said on the radio anyway. In which case no team would be out before the final group game.


That's right. But on the other hand you could then get final games where a specific result would send both teams through.

Say first two games are 1-1 draws, last game poised at 1-1 with 10 minutes to go... what chances of both teams exchanging goals and advancing?


paulh66
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Dec 8, 2016, 12:40 AM

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Re: [mip] 48 team World Cup [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I see what you mean. It could happen but I don't think it would. I'm basing that merely on the fact that every now and then we get a situation where people speculate on the likelihood of a contrived result...but it doesn't happen. And in the example you give I don't think the teams would trust each other to play for that, or would risk the outcry that would happen if they did. Even if it was Germany v Austria! Wink


mip
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Re: [paulh66] 48 team World Cup [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I see what you mean. It could happen but I don't think it would. I'm basing that merely on the fact that every now and then we get a situation where people speculate on the likelihood of a contrived result...but it doesn't happen. And in the example you give I don't think the teams would trust each other to play for that, or would risk the outcry that would happen if they did. Even if it was Germany v Austria! Wink


If it was Denmark v Sweden to ditch out Italy it would definitely happen. Cool 2004...

I'm old and cynical, I'll believe the worst until disproven. 1-1 and a penalty shoot out to decide or 2-2 and everyone celebrates... a clumsy challenge is easy make... a push in the back...

In any case, you'd need penalty shoot outs at the end of every game in case teams finished equal in the groups.


paulh66
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Dec 8, 2016, 12:59 AM

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Re: [mip] 48 team World Cup [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

A group of three 1-1 draws could be settled by FIFA ranking. Or by drawing of lots....just like the old days. But on live TV. With in depth analysis and slo-mo replays. What's not to like?!


Ropemaker
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Dec 8, 2016, 2:46 PM

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Post #21 of 76 (8928 views)
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Re: [paulh66] 48 team World Cup [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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A group of three 1-1 draws could be settled by FIFA ranking. Or by drawing of lots....just like the old days. But on live TV. With in depth analysis and slo-mo replays. What's not to like?!

Using FIFA ranking has obvious drawbacks.

Imagine a group thus:
Algeria 1-0 Germany
Austria 1-0 Algeria

Which would mean
Germany 1-0 Austria
in the last game would mean both countries qualifying on FIFA rankings after all three countries ending with identical records.

Hmmm.



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


007Dale
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Dec 8, 2016, 4:13 PM

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Re: [Ropemaker] 48 team World Cup [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It's a ridiculous idea. The current format is fine.

Trouble is, infantino feels he needs to earn his salary by making changes.


Rob North
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Dec 9, 2016, 1:15 PM

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Re: [007Dale] 48 team World Cup [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Right let's grab the goose by the throat to see if we can squeeze out any more golden eggs...


Ropemaker
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Dec 9, 2016, 5:46 PM

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Re: [Rob North] 48 team World Cup [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Also, whichever team plays in group games 1 and 3 will have twice as long a gap between their matches.

Which may/may not be advantageous.



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


paulh66
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Dec 14, 2016, 11:28 PM

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Post #25 of 76 (8354 views)
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Re: [Ropemaker] 48 team World Cup [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
A group of three 1-1 draws could be settled by FIFA ranking. Or by drawing of lots....just like the old days. But on live TV. With in depth analysis and slo-mo replays. What's not to like?!

Using FIFA ranking has obvious drawbacks.

Imagine a group thus:
Algeria 1-0 Germany
Austria 1-0 Algeria

Which would mean
Germany 1-0 Austria
in the last game would mean both countries qualifying on FIFA rankings after all three countries ending with identical records.

Hmmm.


Or just replay the group. I believe this happened in the 1990/1 Leyland Daf Trophy group stages. Wink

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