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Brexit negotiations

 

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PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Apr 17, 2017, 12:12 AM

Posts: 9956
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Post #426 of 446 (2760 views)
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In Reply To
No chance that these Remain voting youngsters have all attended left-leaning academia?

You know, those places where diversity is encouraged (apart from diversity of thought of course?)


It may be more relevant to compare University Tuition Fees north and south of the border.


I find it odd that people like Mr T claim that the SNP is a one trick pony yet on social welfare it light years ahead of Westminster.

No tuition fees
No prescription charges
free personal care for the elderly
mitigation of the bedroom tax
abolition of all hospital parking charges (unless hospitals are PFI)
abolition of all bridge tolls etc etc

Many English whinge about this and complain that England doesn't get these things and then they vote Tory again. What the heck do they expect if they vote Tory - a caring government? All the Tories care about are their pockets.

I think people like Mr T are so blinded by their hatred of the SNP that they cannot see beyond the independence issue.


(This post was edited by PaulC on Apr 17, 2017, 12:15 AM)


Mr. T
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Apr 17, 2017, 1:04 AM

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Post #427 of 446 (2741 views)
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Don't attribute to me remarks made by someone else.


MrTangerineMan
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Apr 17, 2017, 3:09 AM

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Post #428 of 446 (2722 views)
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Quite so, and PaulC moans on about blindness! Wink

For the record, I do not hate any political party - I have little time for them but I find that hatred is a wasted and bitter emotion. I am more interested in economic arguments.

PaulC has used oil as an example of where Scotland is strong - well the problem is thisl market isn't reliable and since the referendum prices have dropped significantly, so Scotland is currently running a larger budget deficit than the UK as a whole, and therefore would be worse off as independent.

Economists have already highlighted that the 'Sovereign Wealth Fund' would be introduced too late to make a difference with North Sea Oil depleting overall (yes, new pockets have been found, but overall the amount is depleting and there will be more bad years than good ones with regards to production according to The Spectator and The Economist). Scotland would have to spend before it can save, and that would mean an increase in taxes and austerity north of the border. The 9% deficit predicted would equal that of Greece.

Oh, and you'd have to have the Euro and then be made to bail out failing Eurozone countries. Have fun with that!

Nicholas Dungan, a transatlantic relations expert with the Atlantic Council, a nonpartisan think tank commented that 'Scotland would have almost no international standing to start with. The new nation would likely have to reapply to enter the European Union, which is not a sure bet because many European governments are dealing with separatist movements of their own and would rather not legitimize the Scottish government.'

(Don't forget that the Catalans, Basques and Andalusian's in Spain want their own countries as well - would Spain want to deal with these and other separatist nations around the EU table...IF the EU is still in existence?)


jon b
First Team Star

Apr 17, 2017, 5:02 AM

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Post #429 of 446 (2715 views)
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     Re: [MrTangerineMan] Brexit negotiations [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

As someone who wants the UK to survive and thrive I find the idea of relying on Project Fear Mark 2 to preserve it worrying. It wasn't exactly a great success as a tactic in the Euro Referendum.

Personally, I think there is a positive message in support of the Union, and not just an economic message either. If we make that case then Indy 2 can be won by those who believe that we, in every sense, are better together. Whether we have politicians who are capable of putting that positive case, I don't know.

It is worrying that so early in the Brexit negotiations we've had sabre rattling over Gibraltar and the kick starting of Scexit. No doubt we'll have lots and lots of other issues to fight over. The next couple of years look set to prove once again just how much fully fun-free divorce tends to be. Frown

I notice Mrs May's Easter Message was that she sensed a "coming together". Unfortunately, the only coming together I sense is that of the Conservative Party as it does whatever it has to to hang on to power. How on earth has the party that made such a prize mess of the Referendum, moved on from it smelling of roses and leading massively in the opinion polls?!

To me it says an awful lot about the leadership qualities of Jezza and his fifth rate Shadow Cabinet.


007Dale
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Apr 17, 2017, 7:05 AM

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Post #430 of 446 (2699 views)
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I notice Mrs May's Easter Message was that she sensed a "coming together". Unfortunately, the only coming together I sense is that of the Conservative Party as it does whatever it has to to hang on to power. How on earth has the party that made such a prize mess of the Referendum, moved on from it smelling of roses and leading massively in the opinion polls?!

To me it says an awful lot about the leadership qualities of Jezza and his fifth rate Shadow Cabinet.



I'm no 'Tory Boy' but I don't see how you can say the Tories are doing whatever they can to hang on to power. Cameron & Osbourne have committed political suicide with the referendum. The current leader could have taken advantage of the huge poll lead by calling for Parliament to grant an early election, but haven't taken that opportunity.

If we had a half-way decent opposition, Mrs May would be under significantly more pressure on Brexit, NHS and Grammar Schools. It's not the Tories fault Labour are a shower.

At the minute you'd have to argue the SNP would make a better official opposition in Westminster!


Isaac
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Apr 17, 2017, 7:51 AM

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Post #431 of 446 (2688 views)
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Because in your world those who voted leave are all Sun readers or delinquent chavs, reality is of course totally different. You didn't get the outcome that you wanted so just get over it eh?


Your lack of comprehension kind of confirms the stereotype of Leave voters you are supposedly arguing against.

No one has said leave voters are all Sun readers, chavs, old or less well-educated. However the data shows that Leave voters are more likely to be in one or more of those categories than Remain voters.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...uks-educated-old-an/


All you put forward is a lot of childish insults and innuendos about anybody who voted leave or indeed the English in general.Mad


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Apr 17, 2017, 8:01 AM

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Post #432 of 446 (2682 views)
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In Reply To
Don't attribute to me remarks made by someone else.


God, there's two 'em!

(Glasgow Empire c 1955)


(This post was edited by PaulC on Apr 17, 2017, 8:02 AM)


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Apr 17, 2017, 8:15 AM

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Post #433 of 446 (2675 views)
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The 9% deficit predicted would equal that of Greece.


Scottish GDP/per capita $43k
Greece $18k

You have absolutely no idea what the Scottish deficit, if any. is. Scotland receives £27 billion and spends £27 billion. It contributes $60 billion. That is all you know for fact. All else is calculated on a per capita share of WM spending, regardless of where and on what it is spent.


Quote
Oh, and you'd have to have the Euro


No we wouldn't. Many new EU countries don't use the Euro. And not so new countries too - Sweden has been a member for about 20 years.


Quote
and then be made to bail out failing Eurozone countries. Have fun with that!


Scotland already contributes via Westminster. No change there then.


In Reply To
Nicholas Dungan, a transatlantic relations expert with the Atlantic Council, a nonpartisan think tank commented that 'Scotland would have almost no international standing to start with. The new nation would likely have to reapply to enter the European Union, which is not a sure bet because many European governments are dealing with separatist movements of their own and would rather not legitimize the Scottish government.'

(Don't forget that the Catalans, Basques and Andalusian's in Spain want their own countries as well - would Spain want to deal with these and other separatist nations around the EU table...IF the EU is still in existence?)


Dear oh dear oh dear. Not that old chestnut again. Repeating a lie over and over again does not make it true.
"Spain gives up threat to veto an independent Scotland's application to join the EU,,,,

The Guardian reports that when asked directly whether he would veto an independent Scotland of joining the EU, Mr Dastis said: “No, we wouldn’t”. "
http://www.independent.co.uk/...cation-a7662531.html


(This post was edited by PaulC on Apr 17, 2017, 8:17 AM)


007Dale
First Team Sub

Apr 17, 2017, 9:49 AM

Posts: 1177
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Post #434 of 446 (2656 views)
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Whenever Paul C goes on one of his rants, it always brings to mind the Benitez breakdown.

Very funny if it wasn't so sad to see someone lose it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fOaZYhTd2BU


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Apr 17, 2017, 9:56 AM

Posts: 9956
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Post #435 of 446 (2653 views)
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LOL! When you can't play the ball, play the man.

Funny isn't it that correcting errors is described as a rant? But then, I suppose that's all that's left when you lose the argument.

Hey ho!

Next...


(This post was edited by PaulC on Apr 17, 2017, 9:57 AM)


Mr. T
Chelsea Transfer Target

Apr 17, 2017, 10:47 AM

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Post #436 of 446 (2642 views)
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In Reply To
Don't attribute to me remarks made by someone else.


God, there's two 'em!

(Glasgow Empire c 1955)


Not having the grace the admit to your error, you compound it with a cheap joke (and you can't even quote that correctly, despite more than one attempt).


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Apr 17, 2017, 10:57 AM

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Post #437 of 446 (2636 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Don't attribute to me remarks made by someone else.


God, there's two 'em!

(Glasgow Empire c 1955)


Not having the grace the admit to your error, you compound it with a cheap joke (and you can't even quote that correctly, despite more than one attempt).


Dearie me. I abbreviated "Mr Tangerine whatever it is" to "Mr T" for the sake of brevity. I had no idea there was also a "Mr T".

Try not to get your knickers into such a twist, dear. It really isn't a big issue.


Mr. T
Chelsea Transfer Target

Apr 17, 2017, 11:18 AM

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Post #438 of 446 (2631 views)
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I see your attitude hasn't improved since last summer when you gratuitously insulted 17 million UK voters and then explained it away as a mere debating point. And having just accused someone else of playing the man not the ball you might like to reacquaint yourself with the meaning of the word 'hypocrite'.

Many forum members reading your post might have assumed 'Mr T' meant me.


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Apr 17, 2017, 11:23 AM

Posts: 9956
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Post #439 of 446 (2626 views)
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Many forum members reading your post might have assumed 'Mr T' meant me.


Then they would have been wrong. Those with a modicum of intelligence would have realised I was writing about abbreviated Mr T who was the one who mentioned the "one trick pony". I hadn't realised there were some who would have needed it spelled out for them.

It ain't rocket science.


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Apr 17, 2017, 11:28 AM

Posts: 9956
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Post #440 of 446 (2623 views)
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I see your attitude hasn't improved since last summer when you gratuitously insulted 17 million UK voters and then explained it away as a mere debating point..


I suspect you must have misunderstood that too.

Mind you if care to show me where I gratuitously insulted 17 m UK voters if might reassess my suspicions.


Mr. T
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Apr 17, 2017, 11:33 AM

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Post #441 of 446 (2622 views)
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For such a champion of detail, fact and correctness as you, it was careless and lazy to even allow for any ambiguity. I might suggest it would be a courtesy to avoid such an error but I suspect the virtue is unfamiliar to you.


Mr. T
Chelsea Transfer Target

Apr 17, 2017, 11:35 AM

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Post #442 of 446 (2620 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To
I see your attitude hasn't improved since last summer when you gratuitously insulted 17 million UK voters and then explained it away as a mere debating point..


I suspect you must have misunderstood that too.

Mind you if care to show me where I gratuitously insulted 17 m UK voters if might reassess my suspicions.


I misunderstood nothing. You have a very short memory. You like research – go back to the EU threads.


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Apr 17, 2017, 11:46 AM

Posts: 9956
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
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Post #443 of 446 (2614 views)
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For such a champion of detail, fact and correctness as you, it was careless and lazy to even allow for any ambiguity. I might suggest it would be a courtesy to avoid such an error but I suspect the virtue is unfamiliar to you.


In the fortnight prior to your objection Mr T with the long name had contributed 19 posts on this thread, you had contributed just one.

Now I am aware of your existence I shall make sure I differentiate between the two of you.


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Apr 17, 2017, 11:48 AM

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Post #444 of 446 (2612 views)
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I misunderstood nothing. You have a very short memory. You like research – go back to the EU threads.


You're the own making the assertion. Back it up. I've better things to do than do your work for you.


Mr. T
Chelsea Transfer Target

Apr 17, 2017, 11:50 AM

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Post #445 of 446 (2609 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To
For such a champion of detail, fact and correctness as you, it was careless and lazy to even allow for any ambiguity. I might suggest it would be a courtesy to avoid such an error but I suspect the virtue is unfamiliar to you.


In the fortnight prior to your objection Mr T with the long name had contributed 19 posts on this thread, you had contributed just one.

Now I am aware of your existence I shall make sure I differentiate between the two of you.


Further proof of your failing memory. I've been on this forum for a lot longer than the existence of this thread.


leohoenig
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Apr 17, 2017, 11:53 AM

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Post #446 of 446 (2608 views)
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Bored now.
This is all petty insults - there has been no actual discussion of BREXIT or Indyref2 at all.



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com

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