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Brexit negotiations

 

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garethwrexy
Man City Transfer Target!

Mar 27, 2017, 6:44 PM

Posts: 9305
Location: whitford near holywell north wales
Team(s): wrexham and dulwich

Post #251 of 446 (1716 views)
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It's going be a new chapter for the uk



wrexham fc fa trophy winners 2013 !


dottirofhod
Man City Transfer Target!


Mar 27, 2017, 6:49 PM

Posts: 12208
Location: The North. 'Ich hassen lehm kopfs'
Team(s): Crewe Alex and obviously England.(Unlike a lot on here)

Post #252 of 446 (1714 views)
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It's going be a new chapter for the uk

=============================================================

Motor bikers parties in the future ?

=============================================================




I have impeccable credentials , sorry to be so curt but I have had my wrist slapped.
From July 1, 2017. 210/169/41. (You know my rules) @ 23/04/2018.
UEFA. 55 x top tier clubs - need 117 / 711. (16.46 %).
FIFA. Full members - need 97 / 211. (45.97 %).


colpic
Chelsea Transfer Target


Mar 27, 2017, 7:08 PM

Posts: 3115
Location: North West Lincolnshire
Team(s): Scotter United (Scunthorpe League), AFC Telford(home town club),

Post #253 of 446 (1701 views)
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In Reply To

I'm probably stating the obvious here but the referendum was about whether we remained in the EU or not and we know what the outcome was.

The finer details are a matter for the elected government and it's quite pathetic for the remoaners to use this as something else to whinge about now that they've realised that they're not going to get the second referendum that they quite illogically demanded.


Just as a thought experiment, would you be happy no matter what "finer details" your government negotiates?

One of the possibilities is "the Norwegian model" where you stay a member of the single market with free flow of working force. That's also a way of not being an EU member. Obviously not what you want but a possibility. And a possibility that I suppose you'd be unhappy with.

What folks point out is that what you call "finer details" in reality span a huge spectrum of possibilities that will have a big impact on many people's everyday life. And that there indeed still are plenty of points to discuss.

On of the strengths of the leave campaign was that there were a 100 reasons to leave which made it easier to get support. This is now the flipside as a real and specific deal has to be negotiated, and that can only be done in one way. And there's limited time to do it.

Also your government is the government for the entire British population of which a large part didn't want to leave EU. The government should take that into account when they negotiate a deal to trying to foster a united country. It's a nuisance but the World isn't black and white.



Interesting post Mip. Looking forward to Isaac's reply. I love a good well informed debate (or even half of one).



Where's the 'ignore this poster' button?


Isaac
Man City Transfer Target!

Mar 27, 2017, 7:13 PM

Posts: 9518
Location: Kent
Team(s): ABMU

Post #254 of 446 (1698 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

I'm probably stating the obvious here but the referendum was about whether we remained in the EU or not and we know what the outcome was.

The finer details are a matter for the elected government and it's quite pathetic for the remoaners to use this as something else to whinge about now that they've realised that they're not going to get the second referendum that they quite illogically demanded.


Just as a thought experiment, would you be happy no matter what "finer details" your government negotiates?

One of the possibilities is "the Norwegian model" where you stay a member of the single market with free flow of working force. That's also a way of not being an EU member. Obviously not what you want but a possibility. And a possibility that I suppose you'd be unhappy with.

What folks point out is that what you call "finer details" in reality span a huge spectrum of possibilities that will have a big impact on many people's everyday life. And that there indeed still are plenty of points to discuss.

On of the strengths of the leave campaign was that there were a 100 reasons to leave which made it easier to get support. This is now the flipside as a real and specific deal has to be negotiated, and that can only be done in one way. And there's limited time to do it.

Also your government is the government for the entire British population of which a large part didn't want to leave EU. The government should take that into account when they negotiate a deal to trying to foster a united country. It's a nuisance but the World isn't black and white.



Interesting post Mip. Looking forward to Isaac's reply. I love a good well informed debate (or even half of one).


Well don't hold your breath, like I said it's down to the government of the day.

Whether I like the deal or not, we're out of the EU and that's the main thing.

Did you have anything worthwhile to add as you apparently like well informed debate?


(This post was edited by Isaac on Mar 27, 2017, 7:15 PM)


colpic
Chelsea Transfer Target


Mar 27, 2017, 7:19 PM

Posts: 3115
Location: North West Lincolnshire
Team(s): Scotter United (Scunthorpe League), AFC Telford(home town club),

Post #255 of 446 (1690 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

I'm probably stating the obvious here but the referendum was about whether we remained in the EU or not and we know what the outcome was.

The finer details are a matter for the elected government and it's quite pathetic for the remoaners to use this as something else to whinge about now that they've realised that they're not going to get the second referendum that they quite illogically demanded.


Just as a thought experiment, would you be happy no matter what "finer details" your government negotiates?

One of the possibilities is "the Norwegian model" where you stay a member of the single market with free flow of working force. That's also a way of not being an EU member. Obviously not what you want but a possibility. And a possibility that I suppose you'd be unhappy with.

What folks point out is that what you call "finer details" in reality span a huge spectrum of possibilities that will have a big impact on many people's everyday life. And that there indeed still are plenty of points to discuss.

On of the strengths of the leave campaign was that there were a 100 reasons to leave which made it easier to get support. This is now the flipside as a real and specific deal has to be negotiated, and that can only be done in one way. And there's limited time to do it.

Also your government is the government for the entire British population of which a large part didn't want to leave EU. The government should take that into account when they negotiate a deal to trying to foster a united country. It's a nuisance but the World isn't black and white.



Interesting post Mip. Looking forward to Isaac's reply. I love a good well informed debate (or even half of one).


Well don't hold your breath, like I said it's down to the government of the day.


Thought so. Sticking to gleeful one liners doesn't stimulate much debate does it? On that note, I'll follow my own advice (please refer to signature below).



Where's the 'ignore this poster' button?


MrTangerineMan
Reserve Team Regular


Mar 27, 2017, 7:26 PM

Posts: 694
Location:
Team(s):

Post #256 of 446 (1685 views)
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     Re: [Isaac] Brexit negotiations [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Interesting that many of these Jihadi's are from Middle Class backgrounds, not from poorer backgrounds as the media would have you believe.

Having seen the Twitter backlash to Mr. Lydon's comments to Piers Morgan this morning about Brexit, it is not just Jihadi's that we need to watch but Liberal Students.

A snapshot of what our brightest and youngest minds have to say:

'Everybody who voted for Brexit is a racist - FACT!'
'If you voted for Brexit, I will rape your Daughter in front of you!'
'Brexit supporters deserve death! Can't ISIS kill them?'
'LGBTQ & Muslims unite against Jews & Christian bigots NOW - kill them!'

Obviously not every Remainer is as moronic as these people, but when Leavers get called out for their wrongdoings and indiscretions why aren't Remainers calling out these SJW idiots? Just as the Right Wing had to annex it's share of racists and bigots, so the Left now need to annex their own bigots and hate-preachers.


steveking
Reserve Team Regular

Mar 27, 2017, 7:30 PM

Posts: 630
Location: Surbiton
Team(s): Ware, Everton, Kingstonian, Leicester, Portsmouth

Post #257 of 446 (1680 views)
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In Reply To
So what do you suggest, a referendum on how we leave? A phone in perhaps?

I would have thought the answer was obvious. Just about any government policy undergoes public scrutiny and debate in the press and TV. Why on earth would this be different, especially as it's about the biggest political and economic change most of us have experienced. Yet any attempt to take part in such a discussion generates the "remoaners" and other insults. One might almost suspect that the Brexit camp is scared of mature discussion even though no-one is suggesting that discussion is about a fresh referendum, just the terms of the exit.


Isaac
Man City Transfer Target!

Mar 27, 2017, 7:50 PM

Posts: 9518
Location: Kent
Team(s): ABMU

Post #258 of 446 (1665 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

I'm probably stating the obvious here but the referendum was about whether we remained in the EU or not and we know what the outcome was.

The finer details are a matter for the elected government and it's quite pathetic for the remoaners to use this as something else to whinge about now that they've realised that they're not going to get the second referendum that they quite illogically demanded.


Just as a thought experiment, would you be happy no matter what "finer details" your government negotiates?

One of the possibilities is "the Norwegian model" where you stay a member of the single market with free flow of working force. That's also a way of not being an EU member. Obviously not what you want but a possibility. And a possibility that I suppose you'd be unhappy with.

What folks point out is that what you call "finer details" in reality span a huge spectrum of possibilities that will have a big impact on many people's everyday life. And that there indeed still are plenty of points to discuss.

On of the strengths of the leave campaign was that there were a 100 reasons to leave which made it easier to get support. This is now the flipside as a real and specific deal has to be negotiated, and that can only be done in one way. And there's limited time to do it.

Also your government is the government for the entire British population of which a large part didn't want to leave EU. The government should take that into account when they negotiate a deal to trying to foster a united country. It's a nuisance but the World isn't black and white.



Interesting post Mip. Looking forward to Isaac's reply. I love a good well informed debate (or even half of one).


Well don't hold your breath, like I said it's down to the government of the day.


Thought so. Sticking to gleeful one liners doesn't stimulate much debate does it? On that note, I'll follow my own advice (please refer to signature below).


So why did you only quote part of my post?

Anyway you've answered my question by not answering it.

As for gleeful one liners...............oh the hypocrisy!


Isaac
Man City Transfer Target!

Mar 27, 2017, 7:55 PM

Posts: 9518
Location: Kent
Team(s): ABMU

Post #259 of 446 (1661 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To
So what do you suggest, a referendum on how we leave? A phone in perhaps?

I would have thought the answer was obvious. Just about any government policy undergoes public scrutiny and debate in the press and TV. Why on earth would this be different, especially as it's about the biggest political and economic change most of us have experienced. Yet any attempt to take part in such a discussion generates the "remoaners" and other insults. One might almost suspect that the Brexit camp is scared of mature discussion even though no-one is suggesting that discussion is about a fresh referendum, just the terms of the exit.


No just bored with the repeated whinging, and you still haven't grasped it have you? We're leaving the EU and that trumps everything, any other problems perceived or otherwise are of secondary importance.

Of course if it were to be an unmitigated disaster then you can come back and say that you told me so, but it won't be!


(This post was edited by Isaac on Mar 27, 2017, 7:56 PM)


garethwrexy
Man City Transfer Target!

Mar 27, 2017, 7:59 PM

Posts: 9305
Location: whitford near holywell north wales
Team(s): wrexham and dulwich

Post #260 of 446 (1654 views)
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     Re: [dottirofhod] Brexit negotiations [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Eh confused ?



wrexham fc fa trophy winners 2013 !


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Mar 27, 2017, 8:04 PM

Posts: 9009
Location: Lincoln
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia Mönchengladbach

Post #261 of 446 (1649 views)
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In Reply To
Eh confused ?



You surprise me


paulh66
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Mar 27, 2017, 8:10 PM

Posts: 16619
Location: Surrey
Team(s): Tranmere Rovers, South Liverpool (the South will rise again), Cammell Laird

Post #262 of 446 (1647 views)
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We've certainly grasped that there's a particular breed of ill-informed little Englander who can't see any further than the St George's flag flying at the bottom of his garden. If you're bored and have nothing other than one-line dogma to contribute to a discussion about the terms of exit, why bother?


steveking
Reserve Team Regular

Mar 27, 2017, 8:14 PM

Posts: 630
Location: Surbiton
Team(s): Ware, Everton, Kingstonian, Leicester, Portsmouth

Post #263 of 446 (1641 views)
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In Reply To
and you still haven't grasped it have you? We're leaving the EU and that trumps everything,

On the theme of not grasping things you may like to point out where I have said I haven't accepted the result. The vote was out and that's what's happening.

For one more time the issue is not about the exit but about the terms of our exit. It seems a simple enough point even if the issue itself is clearly complicated.

I suspect you just enjoy trotting out the mantra that we're leaving and should get over it without listening to what others are actually saying. When you do that is it any wonder that others suspect that "out" voters deployed the same lack of rigour towards the referendum itself.


Isaac
Man City Transfer Target!

Mar 27, 2017, 8:22 PM

Posts: 9518
Location: Kent
Team(s): ABMU

Post #264 of 446 (1634 views)
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In Reply To
We've certainly grasped that there's a particular breed of ill-informed little Englander who can't see any further than the St George's flag flying at the bottom of his garden. If you're bored and have nothing other than one-line dogma to contribute to a discussion about the terms of exit, why bother?


It has got nothing whatsoever to do with any flag, your ignorance really is staggering. I'll ignore any further comment from you.


Isaac
Man City Transfer Target!

Mar 27, 2017, 8:24 PM

Posts: 9518
Location: Kent
Team(s): ABMU

Post #265 of 446 (1633 views)
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In Reply To
and you still haven't grasped it have you? We're leaving the EU and that trumps everything,

On the theme of not grasping things you may like to point out where I have said I haven't accepted the result. The vote was out and that's what's happening.

For one more time the issue is not about the exit but about the terms of our exit. It seems a simple enough point even if the issue itself is clearly complicated.

I suspect you just enjoy trotting out the mantra that we're leaving and should get over it without listening to what others are actually saying. When you do that is it any wonder that others suspect that "out" voters deployed the same lack of rigour towards the referendum itself.


Like I said, let's wait and see what happens because this is getting nowhere.


garethwrexy
Man City Transfer Target!

Mar 27, 2017, 9:02 PM

Posts: 9305
Location: whitford near holywell north wales
Team(s): wrexham and dulwich

Post #266 of 446 (1606 views)
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Special question time on Brexit tonight



wrexham fc fa trophy winners 2013 !


paulh66
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Mar 27, 2017, 9:13 PM

Posts: 16619
Location: Surrey
Team(s): Tranmere Rovers, South Liverpool (the South will rise again), Cammell Laird

Post #267 of 446 (1597 views)
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Special question time on Brexit tonight


Seems pointless - we've had the vote, now we should all just wait and see what happens...Tongue


Fanatic
First Team Star


Mar 27, 2017, 9:20 PM

Posts: 2388
Location: Aldgate
Team(s):

Post #268 of 446 (1593 views)
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Interesting that many of these Jihadi's are from Middle Class backgrounds, not from poorer backgrounds as the media would have you believe.

Having seen the Twitter backlash to Mr. Lydon's comments to Piers Morgan this morning about Brexit, it is not just Jihadi's that we need to watch but Liberal Students.

A snapshot of what our brightest and youngest minds have to say:

'Everybody who voted for Brexit is a racist - FACT!'
'If you voted for Brexit, I will rape your Daughter in front of you!'
'Brexit supporters deserve death! Can't ISIS kill them?'
'LGBTQ & Muslims unite against Jews & Christian bigots NOW - kill them!'

Obviously not every Remainer is as moronic as these people, but when Leavers get called out for their wrongdoings and indiscretions why aren't Remainers calling out these SJW idiots? Just as the Right Wing had to annex it's share of racists and bigots, so the Left now need to annex their own bigots and hate-preachers.


I've googled the four statements above and can't seem to find them anywhere (on Twitter or elsewhere). Looking at the only thing Lydon has tweeted about the interview, I also couldn't see any replies like those. The last one is the sort of nonsensical thing I would expect to see someone write when trying to parody the Daily Mail, so I'd be very interested to see where you actually got it from.

Using the term SJW is a big red flag...


007Dale
First Team Sub

Mar 27, 2017, 10:25 PM

Posts: 1178
Location:
Team(s): St Albans City, Leicester City

Post #269 of 446 (1553 views)
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My personal view on this is we'all look back on the historic vote and be grateful we made the decision to leave.

The doomsday scenario of an emergency budget and a recession (as promised by Six-jobs) didn't look even close to accurate.

Businesses like certainty and stability, hence their majority view we should remain, but we see much more optimism for the corporate world than before the vote, and that will only grow as terms of the deal start to emerge.

We will make good trade deals in a fraction of the time it takes the EU to negotiate them. I suspect we'll get tariff free access to the EU if we stump up enough cash and all the minor negotiating points will be dealt with swiftly in 2018.

I see every reason to be hopeful for our country's future, I also believe Scotland will stay in the U.K.

There you go, some good old fashioned British optimism to finish the day!


Richard Rundle
Man City Transfer Target!

Mar 27, 2017, 10:25 PM

Posts: 7559
Location:
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Post #270 of 446 (1553 views)
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What does SJW mean?


Fanatic
First Team Star


Mar 27, 2017, 10:29 PM

Posts: 2388
Location: Aldgate
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Post #271 of 446 (1546 views)
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What does SJW mean?


It stands for social justice warrior.

It's usually used by right-wingers to put down people with socially liberal views. Perhaps a more modern version of "political correctness".

https://en.wikipedia.org/...cial_justice_warrior


Ronsdog
First Team Star


Mar 27, 2017, 10:30 PM

Posts: 2154
Location: Sarf London
Team(s): Lowestoft Town, Crystal Palace

Post #272 of 446 (1539 views)
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In Reply To
My personal view on this is we'all look back on the historic vote and be grateful we made the decision to leave.

The doomsday scenario of an emergency budget and a recession (as promised by Six-jobs) didn't look even close to accurate.

Businesses like certainty and stability, hence their majority view we should remain, but we see much more optimism for the corporate world than before the vote, and that will only grow as terms of the deal start to emerge.

We will make good trade deals in a fraction of the time it takes the EU to negotiate them. I suspect we'll get tariff free access to the EU if we stump up enough cash and all the minor negotiating points will be dealt with swiftly in 2018.

I see every reason to be hopeful for our country's future, I also believe Scotland will stay in the U.K.

There you go, some good old fashioned British optimism to finish the day!



Whilst we remain a United Kingdom our representatives in Parliament will have the final say, as regards the Brexit Negotiations, thankfully in my opinion.

Sadly there are still some who have not accepted the result. Notably the Lib Dems who are staking staking their political fortunes on mobilising those who voted remain to demand another referendum , this time on the 'Final Deal'.
That attitude clearly shows their intent; to frustrate the will of the people.

The choice was simple Remain/Leave the EU. We voted to resign our membership.
Not the mechanics of how or what our relationship should be after we have left. Or even, if we leave to our economic detriment. We instructed our government to resign our membership.

We know for sure that we will not remain in the Single Market or Customs Union.
Our 'friends', such as they are, within the club will accept our resignation on Wednesday and then a deal will be arrived at. Probably a last minute deal.
The divorce settlement will result in a one off payment £30/50 billion and then our membership fees will cease. That's 20% of the EUs budget walking out of the door.

As regards the 'negotiations' or arguments, on this side of the water they will doubtless continue long and hard with the same disrespect, bluster and emotion as always.

To put it into football parlance the choice was club or country. How emotional a choice is that?


mip
Man City Transfer Target!


Mar 27, 2017, 10:32 PM

Posts: 9429
Location: Odense
Team(s): Portsmouth, OB, Svendborg fB, Tved B

Post #273 of 446 (1536 views)
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In Reply To
My personal view on this is we'all look back on the historic vote and be grateful we made the decision to leave.

The doomsday scenario of an emergency budget and a recession (as promised by Six-jobs) didn't look even close to accurate.

Businesses like certainty and stability, hence their majority view we should remain, but we see much more optimism for the corporate world than before the vote, and that will only grow as terms of the deal start to emerge.

We will make good trade deals in a fraction of the time it takes the EU to negotiate them. I suspect we'll get tariff free access to the EU if we stump up enough cash and all the minor negotiating points will be dealt with swiftly in 2018.

I see every reason to be hopeful for our country's future, I also believe Scotland will stay in the U.K.

There you go, some good old fashioned British optimism to finish the day!


You forgot England will win the 2018 World Cup? Or is that stretching the optimism too far? Wink


(This post was edited by mip on Mar 27, 2017, 10:34 PM)


MrTangerineMan
Reserve Team Regular


Mar 27, 2017, 10:45 PM

Posts: 694
Location:
Team(s):

Post #274 of 446 (1528 views)
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I would not be surprised if the accounts which put out these comments weren't deleted, making it harder to trace what was typed out.

I will look to screenshot some next time (is there a way to attach screenshots on here?)

Why is the term SJW a red flag, by the way? That is what they call themselves - what term should be used? Not a loaded question, just keen to know.

SJW's are also far from PC - it isn't PC to ban something or somebody because you disagree with it/them. These people are as extreme as the right-wing nutters, if not more so.


Isaac
Man City Transfer Target!

Mar 28, 2017, 8:55 AM

Posts: 9518
Location: Kent
Team(s): ABMU

Post #275 of 446 (1480 views)
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In Reply To
Special question time on Brexit tonight


I saw some of it, the EU are obviously hoping for one last big pay day before we leave and the government need to stand firm, we've been a cash cow for long enough.

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