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Brexit negotiations

 

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Isaac
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Mar 26, 2017, 9:25 PM

Posts: 9367
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Post #226 of 446 (1661 views)
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I will say this Brexit is start of long journey for those been trying to get us out the Eu, Britain will thrive and be great country to live and work in, immigration will finally be under control too,


Do you believe in Santa Claus as well Gareth?


That's a pretty silly comment isn't it?Mad


Isaac
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Mar 26, 2017, 9:28 PM

Posts: 9367
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Post #227 of 446 (1657 views)
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No, remain are know trying scare people I be fuming if don't leave


Don't worry we're going, all the cow manure from the remoaners has been treated with the contempt it deserve!


(This post was edited by Isaac on Mar 26, 2017, 9:29 PM)


007Dale
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Mar 26, 2017, 9:33 PM

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Post #228 of 446 (1651 views)
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It seems clear to me that the lines have been drawn in the battle, it fundamentally comes down to this: How much will it cost us to have tariff-free access to the European Union.

We're not really going to be arguing over much else as we know we won't get access to the full single market without unlimited immigration and we won't acccept that.

Everything else, such as EU residents in the U.K. will be worked out relatively easily.

It's down to the three amigos to get what we want by paying as small amount of the 50bn as possible.

My prediction is a lot of hard words and posturing by the EU this year and when the French and German elections are out of the way, a draft deal will be in place relatively quickly.


paulh66
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Mar 26, 2017, 9:38 PM

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Post #229 of 446 (1649 views)
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No, remain are know trying scare people I be fuming if don't leave


Don't worry we're going, all the cow manure from the remoaners has been treated with the contempt it deserve!


A perfect pair!
The truly scary thing is the jingoistic arrogance of those who had little clue what they were really voting for, and still have no clue how a Brexit will affect their daily lives, trying not only to tell us that things will be better but - as one of them happily says - "treating with contempt" any concerns raised to the opposite.


Ronsdog
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Mar 26, 2017, 9:47 PM

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Post #230 of 446 (1640 views)
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.
Will a pub landlord be leading the backlash of the silent majority? Wink


Our Nigel is at a loose end. Didn't know he'd become a licencee thoughWink


(This post was edited by Ronsdog on Mar 26, 2017, 9:59 PM)


Fanatic
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Mar 26, 2017, 10:12 PM

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Post #231 of 446 (1621 views)
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Nobody knows for sure if it will be a good or bad thing, and just as I (for example) can quote facts by respected economists like Mark Blyth as a sound reason for Brexit (I voted Leave) somebody else could counter those facts with an argument of their own. That's great, and debate is to be encouraged instead of shutting debate down and demanding no platform for anybody whom disagrees with you (like a number of Universities have done).


Predictions of triumph or disaster are probably best avoided for now, but we should definitely take notice of what is going on. Unfortunately, I suspect a lot of the negative stuff won't be widely publicised, especially things like jobs losses as companies won't want to risk a public backlash, whilst any new jobs being created will be.

A Korean friend who works for LG has told me that almost all the Korean multinational companies are quietly downgrading their UK offices (which were all the European HQs) and upgrading offices in Germany to European HQ. The job losses aren't huge, but we are losing status. This is inline with a report in the Sunday Times today that over 30% of multinationals are now planning to move significant parts of their business out of the UK (this was from a survey done by UBS). I guess the ultimate deal breaker on how much of that happens will be the end result of the trade deal.


In Reply To
If people are that upset about Brexit and want to stay in the EU, France and Germany etc. have plenty of room so move over there. It would help us with getting our infrastructure sorted and less people here means less pressure on things like the NHS. Protesting and flag-waving and 'we shall overcoming' won't work - doubling down and taking your money and yourself out of the UK will.


I have heard that the EU is possibly planning to offer EU passports to people in the UK who wish to remain EU citizens. I'll certainly be taking up that offer if it happens. That or move to Scotland and vote for independence in a few years' time Tongue


Isaac
Man City Transfer Target!

Mar 26, 2017, 10:28 PM

Posts: 9367
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Post #232 of 446 (1598 views)
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No, remain are know trying scare people I be fuming if don't leave


Don't worry we're going, all the cow manure from the remoaners has been treated with the contempt it deserve!


A perfect pair!
The truly scary thing is the jingoistic arrogance of those who had little clue what they were really voting for, and still have no clue how a Brexit will affect their daily lives, trying not only to tell us that things will be better but - as one of them happily says - "treating with contempt" any concerns raised to the opposite.


Oh dear, still clutching desperately at straws are we?Blush


paulh66
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Mar 26, 2017, 10:40 PM

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Post #233 of 446 (1591 views)
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Who's "we"?
You admitted yourself you don't know how Brexit will affect you or anyone else, writing it off as "finer detail" that most people aren't greatly interested in. Ignorance is bliss for some, slightly more worrying for others.


Isaac
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Mar 27, 2017, 8:18 AM

Posts: 9367
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Post #234 of 446 (1535 views)
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Who's "we"?
You admitted yourself you don't know how Brexit will affect you or anyone else, writing it off as "finer detail" that most people aren't greatly interested in. Ignorance is bliss for some, slightly more worrying for others.


And neither do you know so there is no point wittering on about it, still I'm sure you can find a few more straws to clutch atCrazy


steveking
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Mar 27, 2017, 10:24 AM

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Post #235 of 446 (1516 views)
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No-one is "wittering on". The process of leaving is going to be hugely complicated and similarly damaging if we don't get it right yet every time someone points this out and suggests that we have to think deeply about it they are labelled "remoaners" or "whingers". Such simplistic responses do not ease the feeling that many who voted out did so without trying to understand what it really meant.


Isaac
Man City Transfer Target!

Mar 27, 2017, 10:41 AM

Posts: 9367
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Post #236 of 446 (1509 views)
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No-one is "wittering on". The process of leaving is going to be hugely complicated and similarly damaging if we don't get it right yet every time someone points this out and suggests that we have to think deeply about it they are labelled "remoaners" or "whingers". Such simplistic responses do not ease the feeling that many who voted out did so without trying to understand what it really meant.


I'm probably stating the obvious here but the referendum was about whether we remained in the EU or not and we know what the outcome was.

The finer details are a matter for the elected government and it's quite pathetic for the remoaners to use this as something else to whinge about now that they've realised that they're not going to get the second referendum that they quite illogically demanded.


(This post was edited by Isaac on Mar 27, 2017, 10:43 AM)


paulh66
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Mar 27, 2017, 11:06 AM

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Post #237 of 446 (1496 views)
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     Re: [Isaac] Brexit negotiations [In reply to]   or

How on earth do you conclude that I'm clutching at straws? Laugh. I've no need to clutch at straws as I'm not one of those people you've lazily deemed to be a "remoaner". It's also baffling - and once again scarily symptomatic of the point I actually did make - that such ignorance not only exists but gleefully shows itself off.

Either that or, as the 'real name' you've used in your profile might suggest, you're just on another wind up!


Isaac
Man City Transfer Target!

Mar 27, 2017, 11:12 AM

Posts: 9367
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Post #238 of 446 (1494 views)
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How on earth do you conclude that I'm clutching at straws? Laugh. I've no need to clutch at straws as I'm not one of those people you've lazily deemed to be a "remoaner". It's also baffling - and once again scarily symptomatic of the point I actually did make - that such ignorance not only exists but gleefully shows itself off.

Either that or, as the 'real name' you've used in your profile might suggest, you're just on another wind up!


Well funnily enough I thought you were the one on a wind upMad


mip
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Mar 27, 2017, 11:41 AM

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Post #239 of 446 (1481 views)
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I'm probably stating the obvious here but the referendum was about whether we remained in the EU or not and we know what the outcome was.

The finer details are a matter for the elected government and it's quite pathetic for the remoaners to use this as something else to whinge about now that they've realised that they're not going to get the second referendum that they quite illogically demanded.


Just as a thought experiment, would you be happy no matter what "finer details" your government negotiates?

One of the possibilities is "the Norwegian model" where you stay a member of the single market with free flow of working force. That's also a way of not being an EU member. Obviously not what you want but a possibility. And a possibility that I suppose you'd be unhappy with.

What folks point out is that what you call "finer details" in reality span a huge spectrum of possibilities that will have a big impact on many people's everyday life. And that there indeed still are plenty of points to discuss.

On of the strengths of the leave campaign was that there were a 100 reasons to leave which made it easier to get support. This is now the flipside as a real and specific deal has to be negotiated, and that can only be done in one way. And there's limited time to do it.

Also your government is the government for the entire British population of which a large part didn't want to leave EU. The government should take that into account when they negotiate a deal to trying to foster a united country. It's a nuisance but the World isn't black and white.


Richard Rundle
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Mar 27, 2017, 2:04 PM

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Post #240 of 446 (1440 views)
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I'm probably stating the obvious here but the referendum was about whether we remained in the EU or not and we know what the outcome was.


And every time we have a general election, whoever ends up on the losing side still campaigns against the government, and policies end up being discussed, argued for and against and no-one calls the opposition "whingers" or "moaners".

Why should the losers of a single issue (albeit a big issue) referendum be any different?

There will be 45 years worth of legislation to trawl through to repeal and replace with UK versions and a lot of the "fine detail" will actually be very important to lots of voters, both "Leave" and "Remain". For instance, will access to European health services be available if you fall ill on holiday. Closer to home, perhaps, will the FA be able to establish quotas on foreign players in professional football.

There's lots to so and a lot of debating and negotiating to do over the next 12 months and to suggest that people can argue against the Government of the day on things like the NI changes for self-employed people, but not against, say, access to fishing grounds, seems ridiculous.


Isaac
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Mar 27, 2017, 2:20 PM

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Post #241 of 446 (1428 views)
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I'm probably stating the obvious here but the referendum was about whether we remained in the EU or not and we know what the outcome was.


And every time we have a general election, whoever ends up on the losing side still campaigns against the government, and policies end up being discussed, argued for and against and no-one calls the opposition "whingers" or "moaners".

Why should the losers of a single issue (albeit a big issue) referendum be any different?

There will be 45 years worth of legislation to trawl through to repeal and replace with UK versions and a lot of the "fine detail" will actually be very important to lots of voters, both "Leave" and "Remain". For instance, will access to European health services be available if you fall ill on holiday. Closer to home, perhaps, will the FA be able to establish quotas on foreign players in professional football.

There's lots to so and a lot of debating and negotiating to do over the next 12 months and to suggest that people can argue against the Government of the day on things like the NI changes for self-employed people, but not against, say, access to fishing grounds, seems ridiculous.





Well I can't recall any political parties demanding a rerun of the election because they weren't voted into office can you?

Access to European health services if you fall ill abroad? Don't you take out your own insurance? That's that 'problem' sorted already!

The rest is a matter for the government, what gets me is this ridiculous notion that people who voted leave are suddenly going to regret doing so. It's just not going to happen!


paulh66
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Mar 27, 2017, 2:52 PM

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Post #242 of 446 (1407 views)
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Access to European health services if you fall ill abroad? Don't you take out your own insurance? That's that 'problem' sorted already!

The rest is a matter for the government, what gets me is this ridiculous notion that people who voted leave are suddenly going to regret doing so. It's just not going to happen!


Obviously they will regret it if they find themselves worse off. Such as in the problem you've apparently just sorted, where the benefits of EHIC would, if lost, simply be replaced by additional travel insurance premiums.


Isaac
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Mar 27, 2017, 3:02 PM

Posts: 9367
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Post #243 of 446 (1395 views)
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Access to European health services if you fall ill abroad? Don't you take out your own insurance? That's that 'problem' sorted already!

The rest is a matter for the government, what gets me is this ridiculous notion that people who voted leave are suddenly going to regret doing so. It's just not going to happen!


Obviously they will regret it if they find themselves worse off. Such as in the problem you've apparently just sorted, where the benefits of EHIC would, if lost, simply be replaced by additional travel insurance premiums.

Lets just wait and see shall we? Oh and I always take out insurance if I'm going abroad and assumed everybody did likewise, why should another country have to pay for your medical care?


paulh66
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Mar 27, 2017, 3:07 PM

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Post #244 of 446 (1388 views)
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More than happy to wait and see. So long as I'm not slated off as a whinger and a remoaner because I'm not comfortable with the uncertainty by people who know no better.

As for the example in question, seems you've been blissfully unaware of one particular benefit of European unity.


steveking
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Mar 27, 2017, 3:13 PM

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Post #245 of 446 (1383 views)
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Well I can't recall any political parties demanding a rerun of the election because they weren't voted into office can you?

That of course has not been the point of those who want a proper discussion of how we leave. How many other issues are you happy to leave for the government of the day to resolve? Democracy is more than just voting once every few years.


Ropemaker
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Mar 27, 2017, 3:21 PM

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Post #246 of 446 (1378 views)
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Well I can't recall any political parties demanding a rerun of the election because they weren't voted into office can you?

Well, don't know if he counts but Farage said if the referendum was close that would be grounds for a rerun.

And it was the same result the other way he would now be saying exactly that. But he seems to have forgotten that as the result went his way.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/...-referendum-36306681



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


Isaac
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Mar 27, 2017, 3:41 PM

Posts: 9367
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Post #247 of 446 (1369 views)
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Well I can't recall any political parties demanding a rerun of the election because they weren't voted into office can you?

Well, don't know if he counts but Farage said if the referendum was close that would be grounds for a rerun.

And it was the same result the other way he would now be saying exactly that. But he seems to have forgotten that as the result went his way.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/...-referendum-36306681

Well I don't agree, indeed I have never claimed to agree with everything Mr Farage says, I just agree with most of it.


Isaac
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Mar 27, 2017, 3:43 PM

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Post #248 of 446 (1368 views)
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Well I can't recall any political parties demanding a rerun of the election because they weren't voted into office can you?

That of course has not been the point of those who want a proper discussion of how we leave. How many other issues are you happy to leave for the government of the day to resolve? Democracy is more than just voting once every few years.

So what do you suggest, a referendum on how we leave? A phone in perhaps? Some things have to be left to the government.


Richard Rundle
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Mar 27, 2017, 4:45 PM

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Post #249 of 446 (1346 views)
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So what do you suggest, a referendum on how we leave? A phone in perhaps? Some things have to be left to the government.


Yes, left to the Government, but with the appropriate scrutiny. I'm not in favour of another referendum, but in general trust politicians (of all parties) to do the right thing for the country long term, about as far as I can throw them.


Isaac
Man City Transfer Target!

Mar 27, 2017, 5:25 PM

Posts: 9367
Location: Kent
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Post #250 of 446 (1332 views)
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So what do you suggest, a referendum on how we leave? A phone in perhaps? Some things have to be left to the government.


Yes, left to the Government, but with the appropriate scrutiny. I'm not in favour of another referendum, but in general trust politicians (of all parties) to do the right thing for the country long term, about as far as I can throw them.


Well I didn't vote for the present government but there we are.

Anyway this might explain why so many people want to get out of the EU http://news.sky.com/story/battle-hardened-returning-jihadists-pose-uk-terror-threat-10815737


(This post was edited by Isaac on Mar 27, 2017, 6:27 PM)

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