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007Dale
First Team Sub
Mar 26, 2017, 9:33 PM
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Post #228 of 446
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It seems clear to me that the lines have been drawn in the battle, it fundamentally comes down to this: How much will it cost us to have tariff-free access to the European Union.
We're not really going to be arguing over much else as we know we won't get access to the full single market without unlimited immigration and we won't acccept that.
Everything else, such as EU residents in the U.K. will be worked out relatively easily.
It's down to the three amigos to get what we want by paying as small amount of the £50bn as possible.
My prediction is a lot of hard words and posturing by the EU this year and when the French and German elections are out of the way, a draft deal will be in place relatively quickly.
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Fanatic
First Team Star
Mar 26, 2017, 10:12 PM
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Location: Aldgate
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Post #231 of 446
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Nobody knows for sure if it will be a good or bad thing, and just as I (for example) can quote facts by respected economists like Mark Blyth as a sound reason for Brexit (I voted Leave) somebody else could counter those facts with an argument of their own. That's great, and debate is to be encouraged instead of shutting debate down and demanding no platform for anybody whom disagrees with you (like a number of Universities have done).
Predictions of triumph or disaster are probably best avoided for now, but we should definitely take notice of what is going on. Unfortunately, I suspect a lot of the negative stuff won't be widely publicised, especially things like jobs losses as companies won't want to risk a public backlash, whilst any new jobs being created will be.
A Korean friend who works for LG has told me that almost all the Korean multinational companies are quietly downgrading their UK offices (which were all the European HQs) and upgrading offices in Germany to European HQ. The job losses aren't huge, but we are losing status. This is inline with a report in the Sunday Times today that over 30% of multinationals are now planning to move significant parts of their business out of the UK (this was from a survey done by UBS). I guess the ultimate deal breaker on how much of that happens will be the end result of the trade deal.
If people are that upset about Brexit and want to stay in the EU, France and Germany etc. have plenty of room so move over there. It would help us with getting our infrastructure sorted and less people here means less pressure on things like the NHS. Protesting and flag-waving and 'we shall overcoming' won't work - doubling down and taking your money and yourself out of the UK will.
I have heard that the EU is possibly planning to offer EU passports to people in the UK who wish to remain EU citizens. I'll certainly be taking up that offer if it happens. That or move to Scotland and vote for independence in a few years' time 
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Isaac
Man City Transfer Target!
Mar 26, 2017, 10:28 PM
Posts: 9518
Location: Kent
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Post #232 of 446
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No, remain are know trying scare people I be fuming if don't leave Don't worry we're going, all the cow manure from the remoaners has been treated with the contempt it deserve! A perfect pair! The truly scary thing is the jingoistic arrogance of those who had little clue what they were really voting for, and still have no clue how a Brexit will affect their daily lives, trying not only to tell us that things will be better but - as one of them happily says - "treating with contempt" any concerns raised to the opposite.
Oh dear, still clutching desperately at straws are we?
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paulh66
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Mar 26, 2017, 10:40 PM
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Location: Surrey
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Post #233 of 446
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Who's "we"?
You admitted yourself you don't know how Brexit will affect you or anyone else, writing it off as "finer detail" that most people aren't greatly interested in. Ignorance is bliss for some, slightly more worrying for others.
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steveking
Reserve Team Regular
Mar 27, 2017, 10:24 AM
Posts: 630
Location: Surbiton
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Post #235 of 446
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No-one is "wittering on". The process of leaving is going to be hugely complicated and similarly damaging if we don't get it right yet every time someone points this out and suggests that we have to think deeply about it they are labelled "remoaners" or "whingers". Such simplistic responses do not ease the feeling that many who voted out did so without trying to understand what it really meant.
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paulh66
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Mar 27, 2017, 11:06 AM
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Post #237 of 446
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How on earth do you conclude that I'm clutching at straws?  . I've no need to clutch at straws as I'm not one of those people you've lazily deemed to be a "remoaner". It's also baffling - and once again scarily symptomatic of the point I actually did make - that such ignorance not only exists but gleefully shows itself off.
Either that or, as the 'real name' you've used in your profile might suggest, you're just on another wind up!
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Richard Rundle
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Mar 27, 2017, 2:04 PM
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Post #240 of 446
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I'm probably stating the obvious here but the referendum was about whether we remained in the EU or not and we know what the outcome was.
And every time we have a general election, whoever ends up on the losing side still campaigns against the government, and policies end up being discussed, argued for and against and no-one calls the opposition "whingers" or "moaners".
Why should the losers of a single issue (albeit a big issue) referendum be any different?
There will be 45 years worth of legislation to trawl through to repeal and replace with UK versions and a lot of the "fine detail" will actually be very important to lots of voters, both "Leave" and "Remain". For instance, will access to European health services be available if you fall ill on holiday. Closer to home, perhaps, will the FA be able to establish quotas on foreign players in professional football.
There's lots to so and a lot of debating and negotiating to do over the next 12 months and to suggest that people can argue against the Government of the day on things like the NI changes for self-employed people, but not against, say, access to fishing grounds, seems ridiculous.
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Isaac
Man City Transfer Target!
Mar 27, 2017, 2:20 PM
Posts: 9518
Location: Kent
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Post #241 of 446
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I'm probably stating the obvious here but the referendum was about whether we remained in the EU or not and we know what the outcome was. And every time we have a general election, whoever ends up on the losing side still campaigns against the government, and policies end up being discussed, argued for and against and no-one calls the opposition "whingers" or "moaners". Why should the losers of a single issue (albeit a big issue) referendum be any different? There will be 45 years worth of legislation to trawl through to repeal and replace with UK versions and a lot of the "fine detail" will actually be very important to lots of voters, both "Leave" and "Remain". For instance, will access to European health services be available if you fall ill on holiday. Closer to home, perhaps, will the FA be able to establish quotas on foreign players in professional football. There's lots to so and a lot of debating and negotiating to do over the next 12 months and to suggest that people can argue against the Government of the day on things like the NI changes for self-employed people, but not against, say, access to fishing grounds, seems ridiculous.
Well I can't recall any political parties demanding a rerun of the election because they weren't voted into office can you?
Access to European health services if you fall ill abroad? Don't you take out your own insurance? That's that 'problem' sorted already!
The rest is a matter for the government, what gets me is this ridiculous notion that people who voted leave are suddenly going to regret doing so. It's just not going to happen!
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paulh66
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Mar 27, 2017, 2:52 PM
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Post #242 of 446
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Access to European health services if you fall ill abroad? Don't you take out your own insurance? That's that 'problem' sorted already!
The rest is a matter for the government, what gets me is this ridiculous notion that people who voted leave are suddenly going to regret doing so. It's just not going to happen!
Obviously they will regret it if they find themselves worse off. Such as in the problem you've apparently just sorted, where the benefits of EHIC would, if lost, simply be replaced by additional travel insurance premiums.
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paulh66
Qatar World Cup bid member!
Mar 27, 2017, 3:07 PM
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Post #244 of 446
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More than happy to wait and see. So long as I'm not slated off as a whinger and a remoaner because I'm not comfortable with the uncertainty by people who know no better.
As for the example in question, seems you've been blissfully unaware of one particular benefit of European unity.
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Ropemaker
Man City Transfer Target!
Mar 27, 2017, 3:21 PM
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Post #246 of 446
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Well I can't recall any political parties demanding a rerun of the election because they weren't voted into office can you?Well, don't know if he counts but Farage said if the referendum was close that would be grounds for a rerun.
And it was the same result the other way he would now be saying exactly that. But he seems to have forgotten that as the result went his way.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/...-referendum-36306681
Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.
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Isaac
Man City Transfer Target!
Mar 27, 2017, 3:43 PM
Posts: 9518
Location: Kent
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Post #248 of 446
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Well I can't recall any political parties demanding a rerun of the election because they weren't voted into office can you? That of course has not been the point of those who want a proper discussion of how we leave. How many other issues are you happy to leave for the government of the day to resolve? Democracy is more than just voting once every few years.
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Isaac
Man City Transfer Target!
Mar 27, 2017, 5:25 PM
Posts: 9518
Location: Kent
Team(s): ABMU
Post #250 of 446
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So what do you suggest, a referendum on how we leave? A phone in perhaps? Some things have to be left to the government. Yes, left to the Government, but with the appropriate scrutiny. I'm not in favour of another referendum, but in general trust politicians (of all parties) to do the right thing for the country long term, about as far as I can throw them.
Well I didn't vote for the present government but there we are.
Anyway this might explain why so many people want to get out of the EU http://news.sky.com/story/battle-hardened-returning-jihadists-pose-uk-terror-threat-10815737
(This post was edited by Isaac on Mar 27, 2017, 6:27 PM)
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