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Rangers go into Administation

 

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hawkwind
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May 30, 2012, 7:29 PM

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Post #76 of 140 (4286 views)
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Re: [PaulC] Rangers go into Administation [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
SFA rulebook

“The fact of membership of the SFA shall constitute an agreement by a member of it that it, or any body or person interested through such member, shall submit all disputes to the jurisdiction of the judicial panel and shall not be permitted to take such differences or questions to a court of law.”

By taking their case to court Rangers are in breach of SFA rules. If the SFA obeys the court ruling it is in breach of UEFA/FIFA rules for allowing courts to intervene in footballing matters. This has all sorts of implications for clubs and the national team.

Solution - expel Rangers from the SFA for breach of SFA rules.


For ideas of possible scenarios maybe the recent example of Sion?

When faced with the choice of backing Sion and having their national team and club sides excluded from all international competition, or accepting FIFA/UEFA authority, the Swiss FA made the obvious choice.

EDIT: Apologies this is how I should have written this an hour and a half ago.

(This post was edited by hawkwind on May 30, 2012, 8:52 PM)


Matty
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May 31, 2012, 3:55 PM

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Post #77 of 140 (4231 views)
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It's quite simple, if administrators didn't get their fee, then no one would do the job.


I think half the population of Glasgow would pay a fair bit to liquidate them


Mister TwoU
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Jun 1, 2012, 9:53 AM

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Re: [Jamesie] Rangers go into Administation [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Personally, I think that Rangers should be given a punishment that offers a benefit to all of the teams in the SPL & SFL.

Namely - make them play (preferably two) whole seasons (or maybe four?) consisting only of friendlies - against each and every one of the remaining 41 clubs in the system.

I recommend an even number of seasons, so that both a home and an away game might be fit-in against each of the other clubs, and the share of the 'purse' from each of these games be preferentially loaded to the opposition.

In season I all the teams in Divisions 3 & 4 will be played, while in season II the Premier & Division 1 teams are played. Note that the relegated team(s) from Div. 1 would be the first to be played in season II and those promoted from Div. 2 would not get a second pair of games - so keeping things as fair as possible.

In any season that Rangers games were to be included in a given division's fixtures, the fixture-draw would officially include them, meaning that each team would have two bye weeks per season, but would also mean each could be guaranteed a 'favourable time/date' for their big match.

I guess then, in that season I, some sort of extraneous arrangement might be made to ensure there also being the four Auld Firm games per season, to appease the TV sponsors, maybe adding a fifth game to make a best-of-five charity fund-raising kind of tourney? I think that'd make sense.

I don't think there should be any/many further sanctions beyond the two/four year exclusion. This way, allowing the team to quietly rebuild, while benefiting both charities and the rest of the teams in the system, would seem like a win-win scenario to me.

Having said this, I DO think that a relegation to Div. 3 could also be a 'most appropriate' punishment, the precedent set by Livingston, so I wait with bated breath the final outcome of that.



Professional cretin.


UKPunk
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Jun 1, 2012, 10:22 AM

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In Reply To
It's quite simple, if administrators didn't get their fee, then no one would do the job.

I think half the population of Glasgow would pay a fair bit to liquidate them

I think half the population of Scotland would pay a fair bit to liquidate both of them. Cool



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Jamesie
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Jun 12, 2012, 11:39 AM

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From http://www.bbc.co.uk/.../0/football/18407309


Quote
Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs will reject the company voluntary arrangement proposal made by Rangers' prospective owner Charles Green.
Green's consortium hopes to have its CVA approved by creditors when they meet at Ibrox on Thursday so that the club can exit administration.
But the club needs dominant creditors HMRC and Ticketus to vote in favour to avoid the assets being sold off.
Green will now try to buy the assets and re-form Rangers as a new club.
He said: "The solemn promise I can make to Rangers fans today is that this club will continue as Rangers Football Club and will continue to play at Ibrox Stadium.
"I am hugely disappointed by the decision of HMRC not to support the CVA proposal and that disappointment will be felt acutely by Rangers fans across the world.
"Frankly, I do not see what benefit will be achieved by this decision. My consortium's offer for a CVA amounted to a total of £8.5m.

"Now that we will have to complete the purchase via the formation of a newco, the purchase price and therefore the amount available to creditors will be £5.5m.
"I can understand HMRC deciding that football clubs which do not pay their taxes need to be punished, but by effectively banning Rangers from Europe for three years all that will happen is that there will be less revenue generated by the club and consequently less money paid over to the taxman."
The CVA terms suggest a maximum payout of nine pence for every pound owed but that is a best-case scenario for those awaiting payment.
Rangers entered administration on 14 February and await the outcome of a First Tier Tax tribunal at the Court of Session in Edinburgh over unpaid taxes - the so-called "Big Tax Case".
If that decision goes against the club, it would mean a further bill of anything from £35m to £70m, thereby reducing the pence-in-the-pound deal to close to zero.
The club's total debts to unsecured creditors listed in the CVA was £55m, with HMRC accounting for £21.5m of that sum.
BBC Scotland has learned that administrators Duff & Phelps held a meeting with HMRC on Monday and were told of their decision.

Duff & Phelps say HMRC's decision was based on "its general policy of not agreeing to a CVA where there is strong evidence of non-compliance by a company with its tax liabilities".
They said HMRC had agreed to consider the CVA proposal along with all other options but decided that the club's level of indebtedness made it unacceptable.
The administrators say HMRC would also have rejected the other offers for the club that proposed a CVA.
Administrator Paul Clark added: "HMRC has taken the view that the public interest will be better served with the liquidation of The Rangers Football Club plc as a corporate entity.
"The Club will continue to operate as it has always done but within a new company structure."
The CVA requires the approval of 75% or more in value of the creditors, and more than 50% in value of the members, voting on the resolution.
Under the terms of the deal struck by Green's consortium to buy Rangers, it will now proceed to purchase the business and assets of Rangers for £5.5m.
By doing so, Green will try to form Rangers as a "newco" that will have to seek the approval of the 11 other Scottish Premier League clubs to play in Scotland's top tier.
Green added: "We will be liaising with the football authorities at the earliest opportunity to establish our position regarding the SPL."




Just a note to anyone who is wondering, I am no longer a moderator of this forum due to current personal circumstances and work commitments. If you need help, contact leohoenig or Steve walker. Thank You.


PaulC
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Jun 12, 2012, 6:22 PM

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Re: [Jamesie] Rangers go into Administation [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I've just been told Rangers are to go into liquidation.

Is this a wind up?


leohoenig
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Jun 12, 2012, 6:51 PM

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I've just been told Rangers are to go into liquidation.

Is this a wind up?


No.
Its just that we may not notice the difference.
A new company will buy the assetts, including Ibrox, and then the new company will be voted into the Scots Premier, who are frightened of the loss of gate money



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PaulC
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Jun 12, 2012, 7:07 PM

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Re: [leohoenig] Rangers go into Administation [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

My puns are wasted here.


Jamesie
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Jun 12, 2012, 7:30 PM

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My puns are wasted here.


Not here Paul. Very good Laugh


aiwa
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Jun 12, 2012, 8:16 PM

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From http://www.bbc.co.uk/.../0/football/18407309


Quote
Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs will reject the company voluntary arrangement proposal made by Rangers' prospective owner Charles Green.
Green's consortium hopes to have its CVA approved by creditors when they meet at Ibrox on Thursday so that the club can exit administration.
But the club needs dominant creditors HMRC and Ticketus to vote in favour to avoid the assets being sold off.
Green will now try to buy the assets and re-form Rangers as a new club.
He said: "The solemn promise I can make to Rangers fans today is that this club will continue as Rangers Football Club and will continue to play at Ibrox Stadium.
"I am hugely disappointed by the decision of HMRC not to support the CVA proposal and that disappointment will be felt acutely by Rangers fans across the world.
"Frankly, I do not see what benefit will be achieved by this decision. My consortium's offer for a CVA amounted to a total of £8.5m.

"Now that we will have to complete the purchase via the formation of a newco, the purchase price and therefore the amount available to creditors will be £5.5m.
"I can understand HMRC deciding that football clubs which do not pay their taxes need to be punished, but by effectively banning Rangers from Europe for three years all that will happen is that there will be less revenue generated by the club and consequently less money paid over to the taxman."
The CVA terms suggest a maximum payout of nine pence for every pound owed but that is a best-case scenario for those awaiting payment.
Rangers entered administration on 14 February and await the outcome of a First Tier Tax tribunal at the Court of Session in Edinburgh over unpaid taxes - the so-called "Big Tax Case".
If that decision goes against the club, it would mean a further bill of anything from £35m to £70m, thereby reducing the pence-in-the-pound deal to close to zero.
The club's total debts to unsecured creditors listed in the CVA was £55m, with HMRC accounting for £21.5m of that sum.
BBC Scotland has learned that administrators Duff & Phelps held a meeting with HMRC on Monday and were told of their decision.

Duff & Phelps say HMRC's decision was based on "its general policy of not agreeing to a CVA where there is strong evidence of non-compliance by a company with its tax liabilities".
They said HMRC had agreed to consider the CVA proposal along with all other options but decided that the club's level of indebtedness made it unacceptable.
The administrators say HMRC would also have rejected the other offers for the club that proposed a CVA.
Administrator Paul Clark added: "HMRC has taken the view that the public interest will be better served with the liquidation of The Rangers Football Club plc as a corporate entity.
"The Club will continue to operate as it has always done but within a new company structure."
The CVA requires the approval of 75% or more in value of the creditors, and more than 50% in value of the members, voting on the resolution.
Under the terms of the deal struck by Green's consortium to buy Rangers, it will now proceed to purchase the business and assets of Rangers for £5.5m.
By doing so, Green will try to form Rangers as a "newco" that will have to seek the approval of the 11 other Scottish Premier League clubs to play in Scotland's top tier.
Green added: "We will be liaising with the football authorities at the earliest opportunity to establish our position regarding the SPL."

Not being expert in company law, there is a lot I don't understand about this situation, for example:
  • Who now pays the administrators and liquidators?
  • If the club is to be liquidated, why is the way not clear for a new bidder to bid for the assets instead of Mr Green? Could the supporters re-form the club?
  • If player contracts form part of the liquidated club's assets, why can they not be offered on the open transfer market instead of being transferred wholesale to a newco?
  • Above all, how is the proposed newco able to acquire the club's highly valuable property assets for next to nothing when the British Government is owed over £20m?



PaulC
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Jun 12, 2012, 8:59 PM

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Re: [aiwa] Rangers go into Administation [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

With regard to the property, although Ibrox stadium may have a substantial value as a football ground, there is no market for it. It has little marketable value as a cleared site either.


Bantam Cymraeg
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Jun 12, 2012, 9:30 PM

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Re: [PaulC] Rangers go into Administation [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Isn't the main stand a listed building? If so, they wouldn't be able to clear the site anyway.


PaulC
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Jun 12, 2012, 9:39 PM

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Isn't the main stand a listed building? If so, they wouldn't be able to clear the site anyway.


Yes, it is.


MistaFozzII
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Jun 13, 2012, 7:53 AM

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Re: [PaulC] Rangers go into Administation [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

What is likely to happen with Rangers now, will the SPL really vote them out, it seems as if the fans want them gone, but are the clubs going to be blinded by pound signs, and then, where should they be put, it would be ridiculous to put them in Division 3, having 000's of Rangers fans flooding places like Stranraer and Berwick every other week, the only good thing being it would make them clubs a few quid. Personally I think Rangers should be voted out the SPL as a punishment and placed in Div 1

Would a newco be able to claim Rangers history or would they be restarting with a blank canvas?



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Swindon Addick
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Jun 13, 2012, 8:29 AM

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Post #90 of 140 (3759 views)
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Re: [aiwa] Rangers go into Administation [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Not being expert in company law, there is a lot I don't understand about this situation, for example:
  • Who now pays the administrators and liquidators?
  • If the club is to be liquidated, why is the way not clear for a new bidder to bid for the assets instead of Mr Green? Could the supporters re-form the club?
  • If player contracts form part of the liquidated club's assets, why can they not be offered on the open transfer market instead of being transferred wholesale to a newco?
  • Above all, how is the proposed newco able to acquire the club's highly valuable property assets for next to nothing when the British Government is owed over £20m?

Basically in a liquidation the liquidator sells whatever assets the company has for as much as he can get for them. Whatever's left after paying his fee goes to the creditors. The size of the debt isn't relevant, it's all about what the assets can realistically be sold for. Given that the players are mostly entitled to walk away very soon due to the deal they did to defer wages, I'd be surprised if the assets amount to anything more than the ground. If a property developer wanted to offer £6 million for it, the liquidator would have to accept that, but none has come forward yet. Also, the liquidator has to avoid making any further losses, so there's pressure to accept the best available offer unless there's real reason to believe there will be a better one in the next few days.

To answer your question about the supporters, yes they could re-form the club but they'd have to find more than £5.5 million if they wanted the ground and the name. Anyone could start a club called FC Rangers of Glasgow and play in a local park - no need to pay the liquidator a penny for that. But throughout this process that fans have shown no interest in that option at all.

What's puzzling me is that the administrators throughout seem to have been considering what's best for the club in the future, when their legal duty is to squeeze every last penny out of if for the creditors. It looks like the sale is going to leave nothing at all after their fees are paid, in which case one might suggest that their performance has been extremely poor.



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Sarumio
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Jun 13, 2012, 8:47 AM

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Post #91 of 140 (3752 views)
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What is likely to happen with Rangers now, will the SPL really vote them out, it seems as if the fans want them gone, but are the clubs going to be blinded by pound signs, and then, where should they be put, it would be ridiculous to put them in Division 3, having 000's of Rangers fans flooding places like Stranraer and Berwick every other week, the only good thing being it would make them clubs a few quid. Personally I think Rangers should be voted out the SPL as a punishment and placed in Div 1

Would a newco be able to claim Rangers history or would they be restarting with a blank canvas?


Yes - and Third Lanark, Clydebank and King's Park should all also be elected straight back into Division One!


BDC0652
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Jun 13, 2012, 2:53 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] Rangers go into Administation [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Interesting to see how the SPL chairman vote?

It's a case of weighing up the revenue lost in not having Rangers in town twice against the a real possibility, for a number of clubs, to reach the Champions League for prehaps the only time in their history and the riches that could bring if they won a couple of games, even the Europa League for so lesser clubs?

Surely if Rangers did get voted out they would probably get placed in the Scottish League top division and be back in the SPL within a year so whatever happens they would only lose out for a year?

In some ways this could answer a lot of question over the 'Can the SPL survive without the big two'. Yes Celtic will win the league by Christmas, but crowds could increase if a battle is created for the second Champions League place.

I might be way of the mark, but just a thought i had this morning.


leohoenig
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Jun 13, 2012, 3:59 PM

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In some ways this could answer a lot of question over the 'Can the SPL survive without the big two'. Yes Celtic will win the league by Christmas, but crowds could increase if a battle is created for the second Champions League place.

I might be way of the mark, but just a thought i had this morning.


For this season, Scotland were 15th on UEFA ratings, the lowest that gets two places in the Champions League. For 2012/13, they have dropped to 18th so only one Champions League place is on offer. They start 2012/13 season in 26th place, so need to gain 12 points more in the rankings than Denmark to get back their place for 2013/14. the best Scottish run in the last four years is 3.6 points



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Swindon Addick
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Jun 14, 2012, 7:44 AM

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Re: [leohoenig] Rangers go into Administation [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Surely Rangers would be expected to be back in the SPL before their ban from Europe ended anyway? Even if they were placed in D3 it has to be unlikely they'd take more than 3 seasons to get the 3 promotions.

The key thing for the SPL is to make the penalties on Rangers sufficient to discourage anyone else going down the newco route. There are lots of ways of doing that which don't involve relegation.

Several of the clubs have lost money that Rangers owed them so I find it hard to see them voting to lose more money by relegating them, even if I think justice demands that.



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qoscrofts
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Jun 14, 2012, 2:31 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
What is likely to happen with Rangers now, will the SPL really vote them out, it seems as if the fans want them gone, but are the clubs going to be blinded by pound signs, and then, where should they be put, it would be ridiculous to put them in Division 3, having 000's of Rangers fans flooding places like Stranraer and Berwick every other week, the only good thing being it would make them clubs a few quid. Personally I think Rangers should be voted out the SPL as a punishment and placed in Div 1

Would a newco be able to claim Rangers history or would they be restarting with a blank canvas?


Yes - and Third Lanark, Clydebank and King's Park should all also be elected straight back into Division One!


i do find it funny when people (normally journalists) state things like Stranraer/Berwick/Montrose etc couldnt cope with the influx of fans - its for a few hours after all and despite appearances to the contrary these towns have things like running water,electricity and are not some sort of third world shanty town (Stranraers not far off it mind). Theres been plenty of recent examples of lower league clubs hosting both sides of the OF without the towns infrastructure collapsing. Stranraer is a particularly strange example as until recently 000s of both sides of the OF would be arriving there on ferries every week as it was!

As to what should happen - they dont exist now full stop so they are out and theres a spare spot up for grabs - open up the bidding process. What will probably happen is we (football fans) will be shafted and the new co will get back in somewhere. I doubt it will be SPL and if its SFL then it should be SFL3 as a start and not SFL1.

Personally given the out and out financial cheating thats been going for years they deserve little sympathy and i suspect theres a whole lot more to be revealed in due course (Mr G Souness and his payments for instance). I wonder if its at all practical for some sort of fudge along the lines of the SFA slapping a years ban on Rangers from Scottish Football for amongst other things the current non payment of tax, taking the SFA to civil court and the double contracts. That would give them a year to re establish a club, possibly not under what looks more a like another in the series of chancers trying to buy them, and for the new entrant to SFL 3 to be in place for a years time - it would mean running with 9 teams in SFL3 this coming season and compensating them for the loss of games, which in the scale of things is a few grand per side.


Mister TwoU
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Jun 14, 2012, 4:41 PM

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Re: [qoscrofts] Rangers go into Administation [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Bear in mind that the liquidators have this week confirmed that from their side there would be no 'interruption' of the football side of things at Rangers FC. They made it very clear that their only remit is to do with the trading company, not the club, which in effect remains a 'going concern' under the auspices of the 'newco'.

The liquidators will settle up the business of the old trading company, realising whatever assets they can (e.g. £8.5m for the sale of the club to the newco), possibly take previous owners through litigation to secure damages against the oldco, and then disbursing whatever this all totals to the secured creditors - which will only be a matter of pennies in the pound.

It is my understanding that the only question with respect to Rangers' position in the football world rests with the SFA and their sanction upon the newco, and following this, whatever is the attitude of the SPL & SFL, as directed by the SFA.



Professional cretin.


rainjar
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Jun 14, 2012, 5:07 PM

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Re: [Mister TwoU] Rangers go into Administation [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Latest - statement from Walter Smith:


Quote
'I can today confirm that following talks over the last few weeks I am leading a new bid for Rangers Football Club.

'I have been assisted by Jim McColl, Douglas Park and other prominent Scottish businessmen with a shared objective - that Rangers Football Club should be in the hands of Rangers people who will stabilise the club and protect it from future situations like we find ourselves in today.

'With this in mind, representatives have, on behalf of my group, made representations to BDO, Duff and Phelps and indeed Charles Green, notifying them of our willingness to offer on the 'Newco' basis on which Mr Green is proceeding.

'We would call on Mr Green to step aside and allow us to proceed with our deal which is in the best interests of the creditors, the employees, the fans and the various other stakeholders of Rangers Football Club.

'None of our group has any desire to own Rangers Football Club but we have put this deal in place to save the club.

'However, our overriding objective is to ensure that the stadium, the history and everything else magical about Rangers Football Club is protected and nurtured back to good health and provide a platform for Rangers for generations to come.

'Let's be clear, this is an acquisition designed to stabilise the club and ensure history does not repeat itself.

'We are not in this to take money out of the club but more so to do whatever it takes in a turnaround plan to ensure within a few years the Club can be passed on intact and to the right people.

'The supporters should be under no illusion that it will be extremely hard but with their support we can overcome financial hardship that lies ahead by lending their support to what we feel is the correct way forward - for Rangers people who know the club inside and out to control its destiny.

'The prominent Scottish businessmen involved have agreed to provide acquisition funding to allow myself and a management team to take on Rangers Football Club and make the business self-sufficient with long term sustainability being essential.

'I would hope that this offer is fully supported by everyone in the Rangers Family as without them the club cannot and will not survive.

'We therefore want to ensure honesty and transparency in everything we do. We want to rebuild Rangers Football Club and in doing so return the institution to the standards it is known for.'




Football Insights


rainjar
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Jun 15, 2012, 12:49 AM

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Charles Green has nevertheless completed the purchase of Rangers' assets in a deal worth £5.5m.


Quote
In a press conference at Ibrox, Mr Green offered to make Mr Smith the club's new chairman.

He also said he wants Ally McCoist to continue as club manager, but said he had not spoken to McCoist about it.

Rangers is to enter liquidation after creditors refused a deal to allow it to emerge from administration.

BBC Scotland understands Mr Smith's bid is worth £6m, which is half-a-million pounds more than Mr Green's group paid for the club's assets.

Mr Green said in a statement: ....
"The transfer of the business and assets to a new company structure has taken effect immediately and the new company is The Rangers Football Club.
"An application has already been made by the company to register with the Scottish Football Association and to participate in the SPL."
The Rangers Supporters Trust has urged fans not to renew season tickets in a bid to put pressure on Mr Green to sell to Mr Smith's consortium.A statement from the Trust said Mr Smith's bid was the only one that would ensure the Rangers family stayed united.

....


More about the "drama":


Quote

....

So what about the new company that controls Rangers' assets? The four investors named by Charles Green today don't include the two he named in May. And one of the four, Ian Hart, has already said he supports the bid launched earlier today by Walter Smith.

Charles Green has repeated his pledge that no one shareholder should have more than 10% of shares.

Indeed, there are heavy hints that ownership will be further diluted by flotation of the new company, to raise money from new investors. Those now on the board bring with them experience of such floats, and Charles Green was taking the opportunity to invite others to write a cheque.

The others he was specifically talking about were in the consortium led by Walter Smith. The former manager spoiled Charles Green's party with an intervention which, on the surface, looked extremely naive - asking Green to step aside when it was already clear the administrators would sell to him, and within minutes.

But it may not have been quite so naive. The bid was preceded this morning by a newspaper story that manager Ally McCoist was ready to quit, believing he can't work with Charles Green.

Headed by Walter Smith, a mentor to McCoist, the statement named two supporters; Douglas Park, the motor industry magnate who is among Rangers' richest supporters, and Jim McColl, who is not a noted Rangers supporter, but is one of Scotland's richest and most successful businessmen.

....

The big Rangers' supporters groups followed up on Walter Smith's intervention with statements backing it, urging Charles Green to step aside, and advising fans not to buy season tickets until "the situation is resolved".

The fans know they have a powerful lever over Charles Green, as there's no evidence he has the working capital he needs to run the club.

Season ticket income looks vital if he's to avoid pitching the club back into administration. So Charles Green now has control of the assets, but faces hostility from his customers.

That's not a good place to be. The Walter & Co consortium is reported to be offering £6m for the assets. That would be a £500,000 profit on the price that's been paid today.

Not bad for a day's work, except that there were costs involved in putting the bid together. Charles Green's team reckons the total bill so far - including the fee paid to the administrators - is £10m.

That looks like the starting point for a negotiation.

But if Walter & Co get what they want for, say, the mid-point of £8m, what then? The former manager's statement gave very little indication of how his people would run the club, except to say they don't want to.

"This is an acquisition designed to stabilise the club and ensure history does not repeat itself," said the former manager.

"We are not in this to take money out of the club, but more so to do whatever it takes in a turnaround plan to ensure within a few years the club can be passed on in tact and to the right people".

....


More surprisingly, as for the old Rangers Football Club plc:


Quote

It could take up to 10 weeks for a formal handover to liquidators.

One reason for that might be that, while it remains a legal entity, the plc has membership of the Scottish Premier League. So the administrators should be able to use the club's vote when it comes to the vital decisions on how Rangers is to be punished for its financial wrongdoing.


And earlier:


Quote
....

... the focus is now on the financial rules of football. And they're no less complex.

... a great deal comes back to Sky and ESPN, the broadcasters.

Last November, they signed a deal worth £80m for five years of the rights to broadcast SPL matches. The contract included a clause that allows it to withdraw if the Old Firm teams are no longer in the SPL.....




Football Insights


(This post was edited by rainjar on Jun 15, 2012, 12:50 AM)


Red Adder
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Jun 15, 2012, 10:01 AM

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Re: [rainjar] Rangers go into Administation [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

What gets me as these big clubs all over the world - despite all the massive advantages they already have over the relative minnows in their league still find it necessary to cheat to preserve their pre-eminence - whether be Rangers financial doping, Juventus etc with buying refs ...


PaulC
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Jun 15, 2012, 2:32 PM

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Re: [Red Adder] Rangers go into Administation [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Rangers weren't cheating to be dominant in Scotland. They were cheating to be competitive in Europe.

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